DKP

[Fazlazen]

looks like you guys are having a blast...

[Expediency]

Originally Posted by Swish [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

A couple of people in a certain casual blue guild have 863 hours of earned raiding time.

They're good folks too (not salty or jaded), just able to raid a lot and been in the guild a long time.

Thats way low. If you raid just 10 hours a week, you will have 863 hours in a year and a half.

[bktroost]

Originally Posted by Expediency [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Thats way low. If you raid just 10 hours a week, you will have 863 hours in a year and a half.

I think Kimanna is up to 2k?

[Sadre Spinegnawer]

Originally Posted by Swish [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I think that's another issue for new players joining the party late here. There's a bunch of people who've been here for years who haven't changed guilds etc with more amassed DKP than you can imagine.

This issue right here boggles me, and I cannot believe anyone would tolerate it.

During live, the *good* DKP guilds did 2 things to eliminate this very problem:

1) every few months, everyone's DKP points were "adjusted" to encourage spending + prevent discouragement among new members. The adjustment involved decreasing the points of people at the top and increasing the points of (active) players at the bottom, to get a smaller spread of points. So for example: player 1 (a veteran) is at top of DKP and has 1k points, player 2 is new and is at bottom and has only 100. The adjustment would subtract z% from player 1 and add z% to player 2, to make the gap between top and bottom smaller. This method is spread out across the whole (active) roster, so that only the players at the mean (500 dkp) would remain the same. The closer you are to that mean, the less the value of z. See how that works? This adjustment is done every few months, and is *extremely* easy to implement. It is an amazing frustration/drama eliminator

2) Non-active players (ie, those not making the required attendance %) get their DKP frozen and cut by y%, and if they return the points remain frozen until they have completed q# of weeks minimum attendance to unfreeze them. They of course still earn points during this period, just cannot bid. This prevents the problem of piggish veterans just banking mega-points and then logging on only when they want an item.


A DKP guild without this adjustment/freezing system is playing its new members for suckers.

[Swish]

Originally Posted by Sadre Spinegnawer [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This issue right here boggles me, and I cannot believe anyone would tolerate it.

During live, the *good* DKP guilds did 2 things to eliminate this very problem:

1) every few months, everyone's DKP points were "adjusted" to encourage spending + prevent discouragement among new members. The adjustment involved decreasing the points of people at the top and increasing the points of (active) players at the bottom, to get a smaller spread of points. So for example: player 1 (a veteran) is at top of DKP and has 1k points, player 2 is new and is at bottom and has only 100. The adjustment would subtract z% from player 1 and add z% to player 2, to make the gap between top and bottom smaller. This method is spread out across the whole (active) roster, so that only the players at the mean (500 dkp) would remain the same. The closer you are to that mean, the less the value of z. See how that works? This adjustment is done every few months, and is *extremely* easy to implement. It is an amazing frustration/drama eliminator

2) Non-active players (ie, those not making the required attendance %) get their DKP frozen and cut by y%, and if they return the points remain frozen until they have completed q# of weeks minimum attendance to unfreeze them. They of course still earn points during this period, just cannot bid. This prevents the problem of piggish veterans just banking mega-points and then logging on only when they want an item.


A DKP guild without this adjustment/freezing system is playing its new members for suckers.

Makes a lot of sense honestly, but not every guild wants a system where if they take a break they're going to get hit in their dkp.

If I were guild hunting at this point I wouldn't want a well stacked DKP system where I'd have to put 50+ raiding hours in to have the chance of bidding on something that's going to be popular (for example: a vindi BP)

[Sadre Spinegnawer]

Originally Posted by Swish [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Makes a lot of sense honestly, but not every guild veteran wants a system where if they take a break they're going to get hit in their dkp.

If I were guild hunting at this point I wouldn't want a well stacked DKP system where I'd have to put 50+ raiding hours in to have the chance of bidding on something that's going to be popular (for example: a vindi BP)

fixed it. the issue requires the GL or officers to simply say, this is how it is going to be. Keep in mind, the adjustment system does nothing to the actual rankings. If you were number 1, you still will be. Just not by a gazillion points. Spend those points, and if you take a break, don't expect to be able to pop back in and take a spot at the head of a line just because you were awesome 6 months ago. Deal with it.

Really, any dkp guild that does not use this system is gulling its new members.

[Thulack]

Originally Posted by Sadre Spinegnawer [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

fixed it. the issue requires the GL or officers to simply say, this is how it is going to be. Keep in mind, the adjustment system does nothing to the actual rankings. If you were number 1, you still will be. Just not by a gazillion points. Spend those points, and if you take a break, don't expect to be able to pop back in and take a spot at the head of a line just because you were awesome 6 months ago. Deal with it.

Really, any dkp guild that does not use this system is gulling its new members.

See the thing is with a bidding system like Awakened has in that its blind bidding people overspend(as in bid much higher then 2nd place) regularly for items. This helps keep the dkp at reasonable levels. You want a nice item you bid or go home. So every raid there was a good portion of DKP that was spent that might not have been with a system like 2nd highest+1 is winner.

[Joyelle]

Originally Posted by Thulack [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

See the thing is with a bidding system like Awakened has in that its blind bidding people overspend(as in bid much higher then 2nd place) regularly for items. This helps keep the dkp at reasonable levels. You want a nice item you bid or go home. So every raid there was a good portion of DKP that was spent that might not have been with a system like 2nd highest+1 is winner.

This is pretty accurate. The turnover rate of dkp leaders in our system is pretty crazy. People often bid very high or even all in on BiS items, so most of the people that had "years of legacy dkp" have been back down to almost 0 dkp several times since Awakened was formed (I am one of these). The DKP values are quite inflated over what they were in Taken, so all that legacy dkp probably equals one good item.

Our top 2 dkp holders right now came from Rampage. I believe all of our top 20 have amassed most of their current DKP in the past 4 months. They also are the ones who track/FTE the most so of course they deserve to be on top.

[Trungep99]

Originally Posted by Joyelle [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This is pretty accurate. The turnover rate of dkp leaders in our system is pretty crazy. People often bid very high or even all in on BiS items, so most of the people that had "years of legacy dkp" have been back down to almost 0 dkp several times since Awakened was formed (I am one of these). The DKP values are quite inflated over what they were in Taken, so all that legacy dkp probably equals one good item.

Our top 2 dkp holders right now came from Rampage. I believe all of our top 20 have amassed most of their current DKP in the past 4 months. They also are the ones who track/FTE the most so of course they deserve to be on top.

i see a lot of that with Asgard to Aftermath. many of the old members had tons of legacy DKP coming into velious and are now very decked out.

[Expediency]

Originally Posted by Sadre Spinegnawer [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This issue right here boggles me, and I cannot believe anyone would tolerate it.

During live, the *good* DKP guilds did 2 things to eliminate this very problem:

1) every few months, everyone's DKP points were "adjusted" to encourage spending + prevent discouragement among new members. The adjustment involved decreasing the points of people at the top and increasing the points of (active) players at the bottom, to get a smaller spread of points. So for example: player 1 (a veteran) is at top of DKP and has 1k points, player 2 is new and is at bottom and has only 100. The adjustment would subtract z% from player 1 and add z% to player 2, to make the gap between top and bottom smaller. This method is spread out across the whole (active) roster, so that only the players at the mean (500 dkp) would remain the same. The closer you are to that mean, the less the value of z. See how that works? This adjustment is done every few months, and is *extremely* easy to implement. It is an amazing frustration/drama eliminator

Are you kidding? Why would anyone tolerate this? Whats the point of keeping DKP at all if you're just going to redistribute them every few months? Some guy comes and does all the heavy lifting and earns 4x as much DKP as another player, then you swoop in and "adjust" it by handing his hard earned points to a person who does far less. If I was in a guild that penalized me in this way, I would leave immediately. There is zero reason to get your DKP above the average since you're just going to lose it. Its a race to the bottom.