Fascists riot in Albuquerque

[Nihilist_santa]

Originally Posted by AenorVZ [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Okay theory questers, let's get real. Firstly, I was press secretary for a former state court judge who ran for governor in a southern state. Secondly, I consulted on two campaigns for an 11-term member of the US Congress. Third, I'm a third generation US Army veteran who self-identifies as an anarcho-syndicalist.

Having worked for two of the most far left political candidates you could imagine, I have a lot of experience with political activism. Having worked for Clear Channel and CBS Radio, been an associate editor of several small newspapers, having written for ESPN.com and been a professional, credentialed NBA reporter, I have a good bit of media experience as well.

In my experience, a lot of the anti-establishment protests we see are driven behind the scenes by American communists. Please see this wiki article so you can know the distinction between a real anarchist like myself and a marxist-lenninist who believes in totalitarian government:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarcho-syndicalism

So I believe there are four distinct philosophies of social organization that have been attempted in human history that are relevant to this discussion:

1. Anarchy

Believes in the dissolution of coercive governmental authority and instead wishes to install goverment based on mutual consent. For example, conscription (a military draft) would not be possible in an anarchist society. It would have to be an all-volunteer military since anarchist principals are anathema to the idea of coerced military service.

2. Representative democracy

A fairy tale much like the tooth fairy. Has as much basis in reality.

3. Communism

A totalitarian form of government that represents itself to be a worker's utopia. Anarchists feel that any form of totalitarian government, regardless of what lofty ideals it purports to espouse, will ultimately act to keep itself in power rather than for the benefit of the workers that supposedly control it.

Here's a simple litmus test to find out if anyone you speak with is a communist. Ask them, in reference to the Tiananmen Square incident in China, if they think the heros were the people protesting in favor of free speech or if the heros were the people driving tanks and suppressing free speech. Any real communist will tell you that the heroic tank drivers were saving China from the evil counter-revolutionary protesters.

Since Communism is a totalitarian form of government, if you don't agree that it is acting in your interests, as the state-controlled media will constantly attempt to drill into your head, then you are subject to arrest, torture, execution and slave labor for expressing thoughts that are not compatible with the propaganda message.

4. Fascism

Government via the overt control of monied intererests for their own benefit and perpetuation. This is the current form of government in the United States. You don't believe in the tooth fairy do you? The operating systems for voting machines are proprietary and not subject to external review, making an audit of any election impossible since there is only one set of data, that which is controlled by the proprietary operating system. An audit, by definition, requires two sources of data.

The most obvious example of fascism is Nazi Germany where Fritz Thiessen, a steel monopolist, financed Hitler's rise to power. Once in power, Hitler set about racially cleansing Germany. However, not all Jews, gypsies and other marginalized groups were sent directly to be killed. IBM sold punch card technology to track the occupations of prisoners so that they could be diverted to slave labor camps such as Auschwitz, where steel and coal were processed for the benefit of the war effort, to the enrichment of the monied interests that controlled the government.

Fascism is the most overtly anti-labor, pro-capital form of government. It's no surprise that the US followed Germany into fascism since we absorbed the Nazi SS intelligence apparatus into what became the American CIA (OSS at the time). George H.W. Bush employed a former German Nazi during one of his presidential campaigns. His father, Prescott Bush, was a banker whose bank's assets were seized by the US goverment under the trading with the enemies act for acting in the interests of Nazi Germany during the war. The assets were later unfrozen and no real consequences ever came to Prescott Bush, sometimes referred to as Hitler's personal banker.

In the modern US, you can see the overt nature of fascist control of our systems of government via the two party system. It doesn't matter if a republican or democrat is chosen to the true elites since the same massive trans national corporations make large contributions to both political parties. Thus, only those who serve the interests of banks and trans nationals can be elected president. This is why Hillary changed the subject during the Brooklyn debate after Bernie proposed to remove marijuana from the controlled substance act. Even though Clinton claims to support Obama's presidency, she refused to indicate that she will respect states' rights on this issue if elected. Instead, she kept quiet, since she knows that decriminalization is not in the interests of the pharmaceutical industry that supports her campaign.

* * *

So no, those weren't fascists. The fascists are the existing government, represented in this case by the police force. The protesters were almost certainly provocateurs whose actions were encouraged by the Communist party, which hopes to foment revolution in the US to overthrow the current fascist government and replace it with an equally totalitarian communist government. No real anarchist would infringe on anyone's right to free speech.

If you have read any Giovanni Gentile then you would begin to understand that fascism is not an "idea". Fascism is an actualism. It can come in any form. Its a swift and singleminded action for the good of a collective. It rose during the 20s and 30s because the cultures where it was embraced were threatened by international communism(jewry).

Some have called fascism an extreme form of propertarianism. Not sure if I agree with that but I guess its used to distinguish fascism from other forms of "collectivism". I think the difference in the fascist form of collectivism as opposed to the communist variety is that fascism recognizes the role of the individual in the overall health of the society and its institutions where as communism stamps out individuality to erase "class" distinctions. Fascism recognizes class distinctions. Take the role of women for example. USSR women = cogs in a machine/NSDAP women = vital aspect of the culture and recognized for that role.

Your description of Fascism is really just an oligarchy. You also say that fascism is an extreme form of capitalism but if you have ever actually studied the writings of actual fascist then you would see that they hold capitalism in contempt as well. Thats why they feel the need for a strong centralized authority to protect the citizens from capitalism(among other things) while maintaining property rights hence the earlier nod to propertarianism. The Nazis saw how the ((((money interest)))) were overwhelmingly led by one faction of society *cough*47% of the 1% these people comprise*cough* and how that system they controlled and used to enslave other nations. They outlawed usury which is how capitalism is corrupted. It bothers me when people try to say that Fascism is extreme capitalism.

[AzzarTheGod]

Reluctantly started reading AenorVZ's post (nothing personal OT rule). Then found it somewhat insightful.

Did read. [X]

[Sorn]

The real protesters packed up and went home before the rioters showed up, so of course the media is having a great time misrepresenting them as violent.

https://progressnownm.org/2016/05/25...w-on-the-news/

Basically, there were two protests, but only the one that gives the impression that the protesters are needlessly aggressive, radical, and probably not the type you want to associate with has really made the news.

(I will now go back to ignoring all of you.)

[Daywolf]

Originally Posted by Sorn [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I will now go back to ignoring all of you.

Oh, thx much Sorn [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If I post something other from Faux news or Huffington Puffington Post here they have meltdowns and won't even look at the thread or linked content. My common sources show Trump supporters being hit with rocks (that later, but...), women screamed at while holding infant babies by guys standing behind Mexican flags, and water bottles being thrown at people in wheelchairs as pig cops stand by and do nothing. Even screaming at old ladies. Most of that happening in the day when you claim they were different people altogether. Those different people were purposely allow to be close enough to the entrance of the rally to engage peaceable citizens on their way to practice their first amendment right, to get a taste of blood for the desired outcome to start that night.

[JurisDictum]

Originally Posted by Daywolf [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Oh, thx much Sorn [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If I post something other from Faux news or Huffington Puffington Post here they have meltdowns and won't even look at the thread or linked content. My common sources show Trump supporters being hit with rocks (that later, but...), women screamed at while holding infant babies by guys standing behind Mexican flags, and water bottles being thrown at people in wheelchairs as pig cops stand by and do nothing. Even screaming at old ladies. Most of that happening in the day when you claim they were different people altogether. Those different people were purposely allow to be close enough to the entrance of the rally to engage peaceable citizens on their way to practice their first amendment right, to get a taste of blood for the desired outcome to start that night.

I'm not saying I know those guys were paid agitators. But I'm saying that if I wanted to get Trump elected as a wealthy interest, that's how I would do it. Just get a bunch of thuggish super nationalists Mexicans on T.V. and frame all left supporters as much.

[Daywolf]

Originally Posted by JurisDictum [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'm not saying I know those guys were paid agitators. But I'm saying that if I wanted to get Trump elected as a wealthy interest, that's how I would do it. Just get a bunch of thuggish super nationalists Mexicans on T.V. and frame all left supporters as much.

lol and they call ME a crazy conspiracy theorist. Next you'll be taking up the cause of chemtrails, truthers and birthers, or whatever you farleft peeps have as conspiracy theories. I'd need to check with MTV on that [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[JurisDictum]

Originally Posted by Daywolf [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

lol and they call ME a crazy conspiracy theorist. Next you'll be taking up the cause of chemtrails, truthers and birthers, or whatever you farleft peeps have as conspiracy theories. I'd need to check with MTV on that [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I would have said the same thing until I started looking into work as a "grass roots lobbyist." If it works -- if you can put a few thugs on TV and change the election, people will do it. The reason I never buy into mainstream conspiracies is because there describing things that would never work (i.e. 3 families controlling everything etc.).

[Nihilist_santa]

Originally Posted by Sorn [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The real protesters packed up and went home before the rioters showed up, so of course the media is having a great time misrepresenting them as violent.

https://progressnownm.org/2016/05/25...w-on-the-news/

Basically, there were two protests, but only the one that gives the impression that the protesters are needlessly aggressive, radical, and probably not the type you want to associate with has really made the news.

(I will now go back to ignoring all of you.)

I guess the news was handing out Mexican flags also? This is avoiding the issue and trying to recast this as who is the aggressor. I dont know about you but a bunch of foreign freeloaders who are up in arms waving foreign flags because they support a lefty (most of them do) who promises free shit is reason enough to vote for the other guy.

[JurisDictum]

Originally Posted by Nihilist_santa [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If you have read any Giovanni Gentile then you would begin to understand that fascism is not an "idea". Fascism is an actualism. It can come in any form. Its a swift and singleminded action for the good of a collective. It rose during the 20s and 30s because the cultures where it was embraced were threatened by international communism(jewry).

Some have called fascism an extreme form of propertarianism. Not sure if I agree with that but I guess its used to distinguish fascism from other forms of "collectivism". I think the difference in the fascist form of collectivism as opposed to the communist variety is that fascism recognizes the role of the individual in the overall health of the society and its institutions where as communism stamps out individuality to erase "class" distinctions. Fascism recognizes class distinctions. Take the role of women for example. USSR women = cogs in a machine/NSDAP women = vital aspect of the culture and recognized for that role.

Your description of Fascism is really just an oligarchy. You also say that fascism is an extreme form of capitalism but if you have ever actually studied the writings of actual fascist then you would see that they hold capitalism in contempt as well. Thats why they feel the need for a strong centralized authority to protect the citizens from capitalism(among other things) while maintaining property rights hence the earlier nod to propertarianism. The Nazis saw how the ((((money interest)))) were overwhelmingly led by one faction of society *cough*47% of the 1% these people comprise*cough* and how that system they controlled and used to enslave other nations. They outlawed usury which is how capitalism is corrupted. It bothers me when people try to say that Fascism is extreme capitalism.

A more sober view than the post you quoted.

Facist and communist regimes are similar in their methods of control. In practical reality there isn't a lot of difference between the two (Hitler once said Stalinism was just "red facism"). But the theory behind the two are completely different. One is about achieving the closest thing to real equality. The other is about state strength, empowering the country at the expense of others.

Facism is closely related to racism. I had a libertarian professor once said the main difference between facism and communism was that facism also had racism. Ultimately I don't agree with him, but in practical reality there is something to it.

Ultimately this kind of stuff usually devolves into some BS semantic argument though.

Edit: The reason american liberals and conservatives always fuck up there understanding of facism -- is because they don't understand that there isn't a big "goverment vs free market" dichomity in the German intellectual tradition. They never really bought into that "the economy" (which exists independent of society) in mass as much as they have here. To Hitler, the economy wasn't a big theater of ideological warfare. Most Germans agree some government and some market is good.

[Nihilist_santa]

Originally Posted by JurisDictum [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

A more sober view than the post you quoted.

Facist and communist regimes are similar in their methods of control. In practical reality there isn't a lot of difference between the two (Hitler once said Stalinism was just "red facism"). But the theory behind the two are completely different. One is about achieving the closest thing to real equality. The other is about state strength, empowering the country at the expense of others.

Facism is closely related to racism. I had a libertarian professor once said the main difference between facism and communism was that facism also had racism. Ultimately I don't agree with him, but in practical reality there is something to it.

Ultimately this kind of stuff usually devolves into some BS semantic argument though.

Edit: The reason american liberals and conservatives always fuck up there understanding of facism -- is because they don't understand that there isn't a big "goverment vs free market" dichomity in the German intellectual tradition. They never really bought into that "the economy" (which exists independent of society) in mass as much as they have here. To Hitler, the economy wasn't a big theater of ideological warfare. Most Germans agree some government and some market is good.

Internationalist have corrupted the concept of racism and misuse it. Now anything associated with nationalism is deemed racist because it is an exclusive ideaology. Progressivism is largely internationalist and also controls education and the media so you end up with this perversion . I find most communist to have been the most brutal and dehumanizing regimes. Their outlook that everyone be equal means there is no room for diversity and no one escaped the "State" .Their inclusiveness is only a ploy to gain the most support seeing as minorities and the poor outnumber any other groups.

Most "fascist" were nationalist and so their concerns were national. This idea of projected racism is kind of laughable. Hitlers "aggression" was the reclaiming of stolen territory. Then your Illuminati used all of this against him and made him a boogeyman to accomplish the founding of their international organizations that rule the world today.