Best Server Community Sin--Wait, Nevermind

[Darian]

Originally Posted by Phragmar [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

What happened between the members of VD and Rilen was wrong. That's the long and short of it. It was legal (legal, at least if the camp meets the definition of a camp under the server rules, and since I haven't seen any staff interpretation on the definition or application to this particular area of the game world, I'm not prepared to take a position on that), but what happened was fundamentally unjust. That means something to me.

K. I'm parking my necro at Lord camp until I get a pair of yaks. When people ask if Lord camp is open, I will respond that I alone am camping the mob and no one else is allowed to have a shot at it. If there is a group of 3 people behind me wanting a shot, I will tell them to wait their turn. If I die, I expect them to wait until I have finished running back without a port from Kerra Isle where I bound myself-- because after all, they saw me die and they know it's my camp. If they try to take the camp, I will call them loot-greedy douchebags and label the situation fundamentally unjust.

This is a league game. This determines who enters the next round-robin. Am I wrong?

Originally Posted by Soup

Say you're a class that can cast SoW. A naked lowbie runs up to you and asks if he can have a SoW for his corpse run. You tell him you will SoW him for 10 plat, no less. He informs you that he is naked and on CR and has no plat, furthermore he informs you he just spent all his plat on a piece of banded armor. You're sitting there with GEBs and BS jewelry and encumbered because of the 20k you're carrying as well as having a full mana bar and are doing nothing, but you still refuse to SoW him without receiving 10plat in exchange for it. Is this a douche bag thing to do?

Please, anyone who does not think that's a douche bag thing to do, tell me now so I can stick you on ignore. With that said, there absolutely should NOT be any kind of rule AT ALL against that.

So you don't want to punish people who don't believe in forced charity, you just want to publicly shame them. Got it.

[soup]

Originally Posted by Darian [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

K. I'm parking my necro at Lord camp until I get a pair of yaks. When people ask if Lord camp is open, I will respond that I alone am camping the mob and no one else is allowed to have a shot at it. If there is a group of 3 people behind me wanting a shot, I will tell them to wait their turn. If I die, I expect them to wait until I have finished running back without a port from Kerra Isle where I bound myself-- because after all, they saw me die and they know it's my camp. If they try to take the camp, I will call them loot-greedy douchebags and label the situation fundamentally unjust.

This is a league game. This determines who enters the next round-robin. Am I wrong?



So you don't want to punish people who don't believe in forced charity, you just want to publicly shame them. Got it.

Usually when people resort to using excessively exaggerated extremes to defend their position, it's the same thing as saying "I know things look and sound really bad, but I don't want to admit it."


@ your ninja edit
I'm not sure where you read that in what I posted. All I said is that the rules don't dictate what is or isn't a dick thing to do. Anyone who thinks the rules DO dictate what is or isn't a dick thing to do is either an asshole or a simpleton. Often a combination of both.

[Darian]

Originally Posted by soup [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Usually when people resort to using excessively exaggerated extremes to defend their position, it's the same thing as saying "I know things look and sound really bad, but I don't want to admit it."

Excessively exaggerated? The only things I changed from the OP's story were the mob in question and the bind point, the latter of which (as you've just told us) shouldn't matter.

Originally Posted by soup

@ your ninja edit
I'm not sure where you read that in what I posted. All I said is that the rules don't dictate what is or isn't a dick thing to do. Anyone who thinks the rules DO dictate what is or isn't a dick thing to do is either an asshole or a simpleton. Often a combination of both.

I agree with you there. Where we disagree is that I happen to think when a camper dies, comes back, finds camp taken, then argues he should be given unlimited chances and deaths to kill the mob without anyone else having a chance (even if he's in over his head)... well, I think that guy is the bigger dick than the folks who took the camp in his absence. The fact that my position lines up better with server rules doesn't mean the rules dictate my morality.

If it had been me camping and I'd died, I wouldn't begrudge people for taking the camp. I expect the best from my guildmates (there's that community thing you're talking about), but I just don't think they're in the wrong here.

oh and inb4 RnF switch

[soup]

Originally Posted by Darian [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Excessively exaggerated? The only things I changed from the OP's story were the mob in question and the bind point, the latter of which (as you've just told us) shouldn't matter.



I agree with you there. Where we disagree is that I happen to think when a camper dies, comes back, finds camp taken, then argues he should be given unlimited chances and deaths to kill the mob without anyone else having a chance (even if he's in over his head)... well, I think that guy is the bigger dick than the folks who took the camp in his absence. The fact that my position lines up better with server rules doesn't mean the rules dictate my morality.

If it had been me camping and I'd died, I wouldn't begrudge people for taking the camp. I expect the best from my guildmates (there's that community thing you're talking about), but I just don't think they're in the wrong here.

oh and inb4 RnF switch

It just really irks me how often people are happy to tell each other to "fuck off, look at the rules". I mean, honestly, the gameplay in this game isn't exactly the most exciting thing ever. What is great though is how much of an influence players can have on each other, both good and bad. I know that going out and buffing noobs on my druid can make SOOOO much more impact than it can in basically any other game, and that's actually why I'm leveling a druid right now (again actually, since my previous account got compromised due to not being cautious enough.) Strictly because I want to go out and offer those useful buffs. Do I expect other people to do the same? Not at all, but it sure does irk me when people are soooo much more than happy to tell someone else to fuck off, look at the rules.

A good example of something I saw recently that I found quite disheartening was when I was in Lguk (on my 50 necro) going around looking for nameds to kill and shit, I took a peek at Lord and saw he was up with a Yak and saw a necro with crappy gear nearby. I asked the necro if they were killing the Lord to which they said yes. I had very little experience with Lord so I decided to sit by and see how they went about killing the Lord as well as to lend a hand if they got in a bad spot. After sitting there for about 5-10 minutes, they asked me "Are you going to just sit there and hope I fail, or....?" and at first I found it somewhat offensive, shit, I'm just wanting to watch and maybe lend a hand, and you're going to ask if I'm trying to jack you? But I realized I can't really blame them since if they did die the rules would allow me to take the mob and Yak and I'm sure they've probably ran into plenty of people who would love nothing other to do that (and hell, had probably ran into people who had done exactly that.)

The necro example is a pretty good one in this example since after talking to them for awhile I found they had been trying to kill him a couple times now and kept getting close and died a couple times, so according to what some people say "He's in over his head, he doesn't deserve the mob!" but on the attempt where I was watching they managed to kill the Lord with absolutely no problem whatsoever. Had they died and I killed the mob and took the Yak, the rules certainly would have allowed that, AND I do not think the rules should state otherwise, but, with that said, I do think I would have been a 100% grade A douche bag to take it.

[Rilen]

Yay.

I don't care to read this shit storm so I'm just going to post details.

I camped AC from 5:20ish am, to whenever I died somewhere around 1:30am maybe?

Died to a white SG that was the 30 minute PH for AC. I shouldn't have died but after over 15 hours at the camp I was getting a bit lazy. The druid that nearly saved me said that I killed it, so my DoT must've magically taken him down.

After this I paid said Druid 150pp to pick me up from LFay, and was back in less than 10 minutes to find the VD members rolled into my camp and try to inform me that they had killed the PH's so it's their camp now. Whatever, I tried to ask them to be nice, be decent, and got rules cited on me.

Quite frankly, I didn't expect anything different, I don't expect anyone to care. In fact, I don't really care.

Douchebags will continue to be douchebags. It should come as no surprise that a congregation of them forms in a mass invite guild.

[soup]

Originally Posted by Rilen [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Yay.

I don't care to read this shit storm so I'm just going to post details.

I camped AC from 5:20ish am, to whenever I died somewhere around 1:30am maybe?

Died to a white SG that was the 30 minute PH for AC. I shouldn't have died but after over 15 hours at the camp I was getting a bit lazy. The druid that nearly saved me said that I killed it, so my DoT must've magically taken him down.

After this I paid said Druid 150pp to pick me up from LFay, and was back in less than 10 minutes to find the VD members rolled into my camp and try to inform me that they had killed the PH's so it's their camp now. Whatever, I tried to ask them to be nice, be decent, and got rules cited on me.

Quite frankly, I didn't expect anything different, I don't expect anyone to care. In fact, I don't really care.

Douchebags will continue to be douchebags. It should come as no surprise that a congregation of them forms in a mass invite guild.

Hey, if you go to camp it again, feel free to message me if I'm on (Hanz, Yarghh, or Youre) and I'll park my necro there with ya. Can't promise my complete undivided attention, but I can offer some help as well as maintaining the camp if something goes wrong.

[Nocte]

Originally Posted by Rilen [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I camped AC
I died
[I] was back in less than 10 minutes
[someone else] rolled into [the] camp
Quite frankly, I didn't expect anything different.

Enough said. You lost the camp. Someone else came to the camp while you were gone. It's a highly sought-after camp. It shouldn't have come as a surprise to anyone that this happened to.

It really is that cut and dry, whether you (or anyone else *cough* OP *cough*) like(s) it or not. It has nothing to do with people "being nice," and everything to do with a collection of people following a set of rules that are in place to deal with these types of situations. For all intensive purposes, you can't even know that the folks at your camp spot even knew you had just died or if you had just killed an AC - they just saw an empty AC camp.