Open petition to reduce variance to +/- 4 hours

[maestrom]

Originally Posted by ArumTP [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

FAT doesn't go for yelinak, tunare, and sleepers(due to lack of keys) currently. Rampage has to work for everything it kills otherwise.

As for BDA not bothering don't know, don't care.

Guilds do push harder for greater content. I've seen gimpatron getting all sorts of stuff that they hadn't been getting pre-velious. Anon got a VS kill, I was surprised and impressed by that. I'd expect these guys to crack into VP in a year at this rate.

Good for FAT!

Of course guilds push for harder content, and I'm really happy to see someone is keeping Rampage honest.

But there are enough Velious targets that no matter how great Vulak's loot is, eventually, Rampage is going to want to kill Tormax, or AoW, or ST. Right now Rampage pretty much gets whatever they want, as I understand it, because spawns are so spread out.

Lets take a hypothetical. Lets assume that Rampage's number 1 target is Vulak. With no variance, Rampage is going to sit their asses in NToV until Vulak is dead. They'll either be contesting targets, or going after their own dragons, but they're not gonna leave and go after Tormax because someone else will take Vulak while they're gone.

That means another guild can kill Tormax. Maybe FAT, maybe BDA, (who is gimpatron btw?). It also leaves Zland and Kland open for whoever wants them. You want FAT in ST? Make Rampage choose between NToV and Klandicar. Right now they don't have to--they can go for both pretty easily because chances are nothing else will be popped or late in window in the event of a kland pop.

No variance also means that all of the bigger raid guilds are in Velious and ignoring Gorenaire, Trakanon, VS and such and will let smaller guilds take a shot at these.

I don't see how this is bad for anyone except Rampage. It's certainly good for the smaller guilds. In fact, I would bet that nearly every raid guild will kill more raid targets without variance.

[ArumTP]

Originally Posted by maestrom [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

But there are enough Velious targets that no matter how great Vulak's loot is, eventually, Rampage is going to want to kill Tormax, or AoW, or ST. Right now Rampage pretty much gets whatever they want, as I understand it, because spawns are so spread out.

Rampage does not get whatever they want. Asgard-Forsaken is literally going after the same mobs as them and succeeds.

Lets take a hypothetical. Lets assume that Rampage's number 1 target is Vulak. With no variance, Rampage is going to sit their asses in NToV until Vulak is dead. They'll either be contesting targets, or going after their own dragons, but they're not gonna leave and go after Tormax because someone else will take Vulak while they're gone.

Vulak takes all of maybe 7 min to kill. It takes more time for a lot of guilds just to mobilize for anything. They will sweep vulak, and move to tormax on their other 60's parked at the ZL.

That means another guild can kill Tormax. Maybe FAT, maybe BDA, (who is gimpatron btw?). It also leaves Zland and Kland open for whoever wants them. You want FAT in ST? Make Rampage choose between NToV and Klandicar. Right now they don't have to--they can go for both pretty easily because chances are nothing else will be popped or late in window in the event of a kland pop.

That is the beauty of the current system. No guild has to choose one or the other any guild with the right dedication and luck can have it all. Just because you're in a guild that apparently does nothing, doesn't mean that rampage is getting every target.

No variance also means that all of the bigger raid guilds are in Velious and ignoring Gorenaire, Trakanon, VS and such and will let smaller guilds take a shot at these.

This is already true with the current system. I really don't think you raid here and are trying to make changes to a system you know nothing about. Vindi is up every 8 hours or so for anyone that wants him. I've seen velkator up for 2 days, woushi gorenaire and talendor up all day. I will say however I think it a lack of any efforts if smaller guilds aren't getting any of these low tier targets. Literally last sev, only asgard and forsaken even bothered to show up.

[maestrom]

Originally Posted by ArumTP [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Rampage does not get whatever they want. Asgard-Forsaken is literally going after the same mobs as them and succeeds.



Vulak takes all of maybe 7 min to kill. It takes more time for a lot of guilds just to mobilize for anything. They will sweep vulak, and move to tormax on their other 60's parked at the ZL.



That is the beauty of the current system. No guild has to choose one or the other any guild with the right dedication and luck can have it all. Just because you're in a guild that apparently does nothing, doesn't mean that rampage is getting every target.



This is already true with the current system. I really don't think you raid here and are trying to make changes to a system you know nothing about. Vindi is up every 8 hours or so for anyone that wants him. I've seen velkator up for 2 days, woushi gorenaire and talendor up all day. I will say however I think it a lack of any efforts if smaller guilds aren't getting any of these low tier targets. Literally last sev, only asgard and forsaken even bothered to show up.

Vulak takes far longer than 7 minutes to kill. Correct me if I'm wrong, but before you can kill Vulak, it helps to have Aaryonar, Cekenar, Dagarn the Destroyer, Eashen of the Sky, Ikatiar the Venom, Jorlleag, Lady Mirenilla, Lady Nevederia, Lord Feshlak, Lord Koi'Doken, Lord Kreizenn, Lord Vyemm, Sevalak, and Zlexak dead. Maybe that can all be done in ~6 minutes, but I bet it takes longer than a 7th minute to kill Vulak.

That means on a repop, Rampage is going to spend more of the night in NToV killing as many of the above dragons as possible. With no variance, Rampage will have to spend at least as much time in NToV the next week as they did on repop night.

How often does FAT beat Rampage? Is it more than half of the time? I don't really know. If its true that you guys regularly beat Rampage to targets and that you're pretty much always going after the same targets, then yeah I totally see how no variance would be bad for you.

I've said a dozen or so times on these forums that I don't raid here yet. Most of the arguments against no-variance here assume that magically Vulak will be spawning alone during prime time on Wednesday night while the rest of NToV and everything else in the game has been dead for 3 days and isn't going to pop any time soon. How much stuff do you need to clear in order to kill Tormax? I bet you can do IZ to dead Tormax in 15-20 minutes. Same with Kland. Zland might bit a tougher engage but I bet he's also pretty quick. How long does it really take to kill Vulak?

[Legday]

Originally Posted by maestrom [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Vulak takes far longer than 7 minutes to kill. Correct me if I'm wrong, but before you can kill Vulak, it helps to have Aaryonar, Cekenar, Dagarn the Destroyer, Eashen of the Sky, Ikatiar the Venom, Jorlleag, Lady Mirenilla, Lady Nevederia, Lord Feshlak, Lord Koi'Doken, Lord Kreizenn, Lord Vyemm, Sevalak, and Zlexak dead. Maybe that can all be done in ~6 minutes, but I bet it takes longer than a 7th minute to kill Vulak.

That means on a repop, Rampage is going to spend more of the night in NToV killing as many of the above dragons as possible. With no variance, Rampage will have to spend at least as much time in NToV the next week as they did on repop night.

How often does FAT beat Rampage? Is it more than half of the time? I don't really know. If its true that you guys regularly beat Rampage to targets and that you're pretty much always going after the same targets, then yeah I totally see how no variance would be bad for you.

I've said a dozen or so times on these forums that I don't raid here yet. Most of the arguments against no-variance here assume that magically Vulak will be spawning alone during prime time on Wednesday night while the rest of NToV and everything else in the game has been dead for 3 days and isn't going to pop any time soon. How much stuff do you need to clear in order to kill Tormax? I bet you can do IZ to dead Tormax in 15-20 minutes. Same with Kland. Zland might bit a tougher engage but I bet he's also pretty quick. How long does it really take to kill Vulak?

Any of the Lord or Lady ntov dragons that aren't dead when Vulak is alive will assist him, and Aaryonar will assist anything else in NToV before he dies...so they would have to be kited (illegal to kite a raid mob) or killed before Vulak can die. Right now, because of 16 hour variance and a lack of sim repops, the windows of all of the big Velious targets including all of NToV are spread out from Friday to Tuesday night. As the windows are currently situated, it is only possible that Lord Vyemm would pop and stay alive before Vulak pops (and not very likely that he will), so Vulak is almost always (currently) a solo fight. He takes 5-10 minutes to kill and depending on how clean the FTE pull/train down are, it could take another 5-10 minutes to get him in to camp.

Rampage is currently evenly contested by the Forsaken/Asgard. Rampage has a slight lead so far this week, but last week Forsaken/Asgard went something like 14 of 19 in direct competition with Rampage. That sounds like a humble brag but the reason I'm posting that is to show to you that Rampage does not have free reign outside of ST anymore. They have to compete and fight for every dragon. Asgard/Forsaken have one shotted Vyemm right in front of them and very rarely wipe once a dragon is in camp, so Rampage is forced to respect the threat and perform at a high level. Gone are the days where they could pick and choose and leave tough targets up.

[maestrom]

Originally Posted by Legday [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Any of the Lord or Lady ntov dragons that aren't dead when Vulak is alive will assist him, and Aaryonar will assist anything else in NToV before he dies...so they would have to be kited (illegal to kite a raid mob) or killed before Vulak can die. Right now, because of 16 hour variance and a lack of sim repops, the windows of all of the big Velious targets including all of NToV are spread out from Friday to Tuesday night. As the windows are currently situated, it is only possible that Lord Vyemm would pop and stay alive before Vulak pops (and not very likely that he will), so Vulak is almost always (currently) a solo fight. He takes 5-10 minutes to kill and depending on how clean the FTE pull/train down are, it could take another 5-10 minutes to get him in to camp.

Rampage is currently evenly contested by the Forsaken/Asgard. Rampage has a slight lead so far this week, but last week Forsaken/Asgard went something like 14 of 19 in direct competition with Rampage. That sounds like a humble brag but the reason I'm posting that is to show to you that Rampage does not have free reign outside of ST anymore. They have to compete and fight for every dragon. Asgard/Forsaken have one shotted Vyemm right in front of them and very rarely wipe once a dragon is in camp, so Rampage is forced to respect the threat and perform at a high level. Gone are the days where they could pick and choose and leave tough targets up.

Even better. My one big concern was that Rampage would be able to pass on some of the harder NToV targets because no one else will go after them. Good work!

[Sadre Spinegnawer]

Originally Posted by Legday [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Rampage is currently evenly contested by the Forsaken/Asgard. Rampage has a slight lead so far this week, but last week Forsaken/Asgard went something like 14 of 19 in direct competition with Rampage. That sounds like a humble brag but the reason I'm posting that is to show to you that Rampage does not have free reign outside of ST anymore. They have to compete and fight for every dragon. Asgard/Forsaken have one shotted Vyemm right in front of them and very rarely wipe once a dragon is in camp, so Rampage is forced to respect the threat and perform at a high level. Gone are the days where they could pick and choose and leave tough targets up.

Congrats by the way.

I think variance is a mistaken question, other than debating to say no variance. Variance is variance is variance. It results in batphonology. Deal, amirite?

I think a more interesting option, is maintaining or even increasing variance, but implementing more periodic but limited earthquakes, which would reset windows.

Earthquakes are fun. Can we agree on that? I would gladly trade increased earthquakes for an even larger variance window. Earthquakes are basically like a pixel juicebox, icy cold.

As to making it so other guilds can get stuff, a pointless matter. There is plenty of content to farm one's heart out on. Dragons and bosses are their own reality. Deal. We all do.

After all, the dying guild bda isn't competing with Rampage. But yet we continue. Like some sick retinue of electronic tuberculosis patients grasping at the few remaining gasps of oxygen in a near empty tank, we continue on.

[Legday]

Originally Posted by Sadre Spinegnawer [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Earthquakes are fun. Can we agree on that? I would gladly trade increased earthquakes for an even larger variance window. Earthquakes are basically like a pixel juicebox, icy cold.

Hell yeah we can agree. I think the reason this thread is focused on the variance changing is because we all know how the plea for moar quakes goes. It's all a futile effort. Zero fucks are given by the server staff when it comes to altering the flow, frequency or timing of the raid mob pops. Quakes happen so rarely and randomly and thats clearly the way they like it. If I were them I wouldn't want to deal with the extra petitions either.