duelwield question

[Rhambuk]

Originally Posted by Estu [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

WHY ARE YOU SAYING THIS. DAMAGE BONUS IS CLEARLY IMPLEMENTED. PEOPLE DO MUCH MORE THAN 2X WEAPON DAMAGE PER SWING.

DMG bonus is not in game, or you wouldn't be seeing people hitting for 1's.

People hit 2x as hard because dmg is calculated by some formula ( dont ask im fuckawful at math) including wpn dmg wpn skill and attk, When a melee gets a str buff attk goes up max hit goes up BUT you can still land a min hit of 1. Hence no bonus.

[Rhambuk]

Found this DW guide, its dated 05 but I believe these are the mechanics this server uses not the classic "offhand proc" mechanic. (sorry for the length)

EverQuest Guides : Dual Weilding Contributed by: Aquendar on 8/26/2005 9:55 AM
Let me break the biggest myth about dual wielding that is out there right now: your primary weapon has NOTHING to do with how often your secondary weapon swings.



Ok, phew, that’s out of the way. Now, dual wield, not to be confused with double attack, is the ability to use two weapons, one in your primary hand, one in your secondary. Double attack is the skill of hitting twice in one ‘swing’. The best way for me to describe this is to detail what happens with a 21-delay weapon in primary and a 34-delay weapon in secondary:



You hit auto-attack.

-Primary weapon swings.

-If you hit, mob gets to check their secondary defenses (parry, dodge, etc.)

-If you still hit, max damage possible is calculated for primary weapon, minus damage bonus

-Damage is mitigated by EQ

-Damage bonus is added

-Crit check is made, and if you do crit, damage is multiplied by 1.7

-Double attack is checked, and if you pass that check, previous few steps are repeated.



-At the same time as primary, dual wield skill is checked.

-If you pass dual wield, then you get to swing secondary, otherwise wait for secondary weapon delay

-If you hit, mob gets to check their secondary defenses (parry, dodge, etc.)

-If you still hit, max damage possible is calculated for secondary weapon, no damage bonus

-Damage is mitigated by EQ

-Crit check is made, and if you do crit, damage is multiplied by 1.7

-Double attack is checked, and if you pass that check, go back to step 3.

2.1 Seconds later (not hasted)

-Primary weapon swings.

-If you hit, mob gets to check their secondary defenses (parry, dodge, etc.)

-If you still hit, max damage possible is calculated for primary weapon, minus damage bonus

-Damage is mitigated by EQ

-Damage bonus is added

-Crit check is made, and if you do crit, damage is multiplied by 1.7

-Double attack is checked, and if you pass that check, previous few steps are repeated.



1.3 MORE seconds later

-Dual wield skill is checked.

-If you pass dual wield, then you get to swing secondary, otherwise wait for secondary weapon delay

-If you hit, mob gets to check their secondary defenses (parry, dodge, etc.)

-If you still hit, max damage possible is calculated for secondary weapon, no damage bonus

-Damage is mitigated by EQ

-Crit check is made, and if you do crit, damage is multiplied by 1.7

-Double attack is checked, and if you pass that check, go back to step 3.



0.8 MORE seconds later

-Primary weapon swings.

-If you hit, mob gets to check their secondary defenses (parry, dodge, etc.)

-If you still hit, max damage possible is calculated for primary weapon, minus damage bonus

-Damage is mitigated by EQ

-Damage bonus is added

-Crit check is made, and if you do crit, damage is multiplied by 1.7

-Double attack is checked, and if you pass that check, previous steps are repeated.



2.1 MORE seconds later

-Primary weapon swings.

-If you hit, mob gets to check their secondary defenses (parry, dodge, etc.)

-If you still hit, max damage possible is calculated for primary weapon, minus damage bonus

-Damage is mitigated by EQ

-Damage bonus is added

-Crit check is made, and if you do crit, damage is multiplied by 1.7

-Double attack is checked, and if you pass that check, previous steps are repeated.



0.5 MORE seconds later

-Dual wield skill is checked.

-If you pass dual wield, then you get to swing secondary, otherwise wait for secondary weapon delay

-If you hit, mob gets to check their secondary defenses (parry, dodge, etc.)

-If you still hit, max damage possible is calculated for secondary weapon, no damage bonus

-Damage is mitigated by EQ

-Crit check is made, and if you do crit, damage is multiplied by 1.7

-Double attack is checked, and if you pass that check, go back to step 3



1.6 MORE seconds later

-Primary weapon swings.

-If you hit, mob gets to check their secondary defenses (parry, dodge, etc.)

-If you still hit, max damage possible is calculated for primary weapon, minus damage bonus

-Damage is mitigated by EQ

-Damage bonus is added

-Crit check is made, and if you do crit, damage is multiplied by 1.7

-Double attack is checked, and if you pass that check, previous steps are repeated



And so on. Now, because the delays are different, you’ll notice that at one point the primary weapon will swing 2-4 times between secondary weapon swings. EVERY swing you have a chance to crit. Every swing you have a chance to proc. Every swing you have a chance to do damage.



Note that on each pass, EVEN IF YOU DON’T hit on the first swing, double attack is still checked so you may hit on the second pass. Quadding is when both weapons are due to swing, you pass dual wield checks and both double attack. You hit 4 times in one pass. A high-level melee character with two swords of the same delay will ‘quad’ a lot. It’s fun!

[Estu]

Originally Posted by Rhambuk [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

DMG bonus is not in game, or you wouldn't be seeing people hitting for 1's.

People hit 2x as hard because dmg is calculated by some formula ( dont ask im fuckawful at math) including wpn dmg wpn skill and attk, When a melee gets a str buff attk goes up max hit goes up BUT you can still land a min hit of 1. Hence no bonus.

When I say "damage bonus", I mean the extra damage added to a weapon's max damage beyond just twice the weapon damage, based on things like STR and level. The fact that this extra damage is added to any weapon, regardless of delay, means that given a low-delay weapon with some ratio and a higher-delay weapon with an equal or somewhat better ratio, you want the low-delay weapon. The fact that max damage is more than twice weapon damage indicates that this damage bonus IS in fact in-game, and telling people to just use the best ratio weapon is misguided.

[Goryani]

Originally Posted by Estu [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

When I say "damage bonus", I mean the extra damage added to a weapon's max damage beyond just twice the weapon damage, based on things like STR and level. The fact that this extra damage is added to any weapon, regardless of delay, means that given a low-delay weapon with some ratio and a higher-delay weapon with an equal or somewhat better ratio, you want the low-delay weapon. The fact that max damage is more than twice weapon damage indicates that this damage bonus IS in fact in-game, and telling people to just use the best ratio weapon is misguided.

Using the formula: Average_Slash = (2 * Weapon_Base) + Bonus_Modifier + STR Modifier

You are referring to the STR Modifier. Others in this thread are referring to the Bonus_Modifier. The Bonus_Modifier is given to every main hand hit. It's a constant damage which depends on your level (however, only melee classes receive the Bonus_Modifier).

If you want to test the existence of the Bonus_Modifier, you need to look at the minimum hit. If the Bonus_Modifier is in game, main hand minimum hit will be measurably higher than the secondary hand minimum hit even when using weapons with identical listed damage. If the Bonus_Modifier is in the game, a L50 main hand minimum damage will never ever ever ever ever ever be lower than 9.

I should add the STR_Modifier portion of the above formula is misleading. It implies the STR bonus is applied to every hit, when it's not. Well, a consistent STR bonus isn't applied to every hit. There is no bonus for a min hit and full bonus for a max hit. Hits in between are given a partial bonus proportional to how close to min/max hit they lay.

You are correct in stating the STR bonus needs to be taken into account. It does. However, it's considerably harder to properly do so. Those that do run their own parses to see their average hit against a particular mob. It's likely the best weapon against a low AC mob is the faster, lower ratio weapon while the best weapon against a high AC mob is the slower, better ratio weapon (in a game with the damage bonus not being applied!).