If you believe in god, you're an idiot...

[boboo]

Originally Posted by RocketMoose [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You do know that the 'church' doesn't really function the way the Bible outlines it right? You can't blame Jesus, for what men have done. We have free will, we make our own choices and decisions. Church leaders, Pastors, Deacons, Bishops are all men, and thus corruptible based on the fact that we are all men/women that were born into a world of sin and corruption and while we take on the image of God, we are not in and of ourselves divine beings. So, just because the church in large part is corrupt (and I agree with you here) doesn't mean that Christ is corrupt.

People's misconception of "Christians" isn't really based on "Christians" It's those people who claim to be Christians because they go to church on Sunday, and Wednesday, but choose not to live a Christian life, but go because it makes them feel good. Those aren't Christians, those are impostors.


I know there are many times when I'm not the best ambassador for Christ, and I know especially in regards to the guy who created this thread I've not been, but that's not because God loves Him any less, I just have a hard time dealing with people like him, those who believe they know everything, and have all the answers, even when they're as wrong as his statement about bards not being able to CC so it didn't matter if he was using an AoE sword. But in the end, none of this really matters.

I'm flawed, and I have plenty of my own struggles, so I'm not here trying to point out everything wrong with anyone else, that's for sure, I have my own short comings to work on. But seriously, it's laughable to think that someone who "doesn't care" cares enough to fight this vehemently against something that "doesn't exist"

I guess in the end, this thread isn't going to decide anything, just going to further fragment people, and push people further away from what the true message of the Bible is.

The overly simplified version is this:

Jesus loves you, and God has a plan for your life.

I hope that everyone can someday have the assurance that I do, and can know God how I know God. It's not because of a fact I found somewhere, it's not because Mommy and Daddy told me, it's because I know that God has impacted my life. So you can argue he doesn't exist, and I can know in my heart differently, but I'm not going to help you by words, or trying to convince you, I can just hope.

In the end, if I'm wrong, I haven't really missed out on anything in life, but in the end, if you're wrong, you'll be missing out on everything, and for that, I'm truly sad for you.

My Uncle is a christian, and has a somewhat similar outlook than you (softer tone, contempt for corruption). He said to me this summer "These frauds have it all wrong, all you need to do to go to heaven is beleive in god". But still that left me this question: What kind of loving god would send me to burn in hell for eternity because I did not beleive in him?

[RocketMoose]

Originally Posted by boboo [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

My Uncle is a christian, and has a somewhat similar outlook than you (softer tone, contempt for corruption). He said to me this summer "These frauds have it all wrong, all you need to do to go to heaven is beleive in god". But still that left me this question: What kind of loving god would send me to burn in hell for eternity because I did not beleive in him?

See, the problem I see there, is God isn't choosing to send you to Hell. He's given you the ability to make your own decisions, and if you choose by your actions that you're going to Hell that's up to you. It's not like He's trying to trick you or He wants you to fail. God isn't some kid in the Cosmos just waiting to zap you with His wand every time you screw up.

God also didn't make us robots who are all going to just conform to loving Him because He made us to do so, where would the satisfaction be in that?

So, it's not really God sending you there, He made the rules easy to find, and they're really not outlandish, it's just some people have a problem with authority I think. But God doesn't want to be separated from you, not at all, I can assure you of that. But He also can't have any part with sin. He couldn't even look on His own son when He took on the sins of the world and was crucified.

That's where the "fire and brimstone" guys give the wrong impression I think.

[boboo]

Originally Posted by RocketMoose [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

See, the problem I see there, is God isn't choosing to send you to Hell. He's given you the ability to make your own decisions, and if you choose by your actions that you're going to Hell that's up to you. It's not like He's trying to trick you or He wants you to fail. God isn't some kid in the Cosmos just waiting to zap you with His wand every time you screw up.

God also didn't make us robots who are all going to just conform to loving Him because He made us to do so, where would the satisfaction be in that?

So, it's not really God sending you there, He made the rules easy to find, and they're really not outlandish, it's just some people have a problem with authority I think. But God doesn't want to be separated from you, not at all, I can assure you of that. But He also can't have any part with sin. He couldn't even look on His own son when He took on the sins of the world and was crucified.

That's where the "fire and brimstone" guys give the wrong impression I think.

But still god could choose not to send me to hell could he not? Prevent me from burning and suffering for eternity, because he loves me? How can he send me there if he truly loves me?

[RocketMoose]

Originally Posted by boboo [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

But still god could choose not to send me to hell could he not? Prevent me from burning and suffering for eternity, because he loves me? How can he send me there if he truly loves me?

There is a thing called dispensation of grace, which isn't really defined, and that's why some people believe that once they are "Saved" they are always "saved" and then allowed to do whatever they please.

But if you want to simplify, have you ever been in love? Like crazy high school days in love? Then had that girl/guy just totally crush you and break your heart, and they come to you begging for forgiveness over and over again, you forgive them, and take them back over and over again. What happens if they never ask you to forgive them, do you choose for them to not be with you anymore, or did they make that choice by never asking for your forgiveness and for you to take them back?

Just because you love someone, doesn't mean you can force them to do something they don't want to do. They make the choice to separate themselves from you, not you from them.

[boboo]

Originally Posted by RocketMoose [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

There is a thing called dispensation of grace, which isn't really defined, and that's why some people believe that once they are "Saved" they are always "saved" and then allowed to do whatever they please.

But if you want to simplify, have you ever been in love? Like crazy high school days in love? Then had that girl/guy just totally crush you and break your heart, and they come to you begging for forgiveness over and over again, you forgive them, and take them back over and over again. What happens if they never ask you to forgive them, do you choose for them to not be with you anymore, or did they make that choice by never asking for your forgiveness and for you to take them back?

Just because you love someone, doesn't mean you can force them to do something they don't want to do. They make the choice to separate themselves from you, not you from them.

So wait, god has no control over if I get sent to hell or not? Is that what youre saying? Do not evade the question, is the decision to send people to hell is made by god himself or it happens outside of his control? Im not talking about the decisions that would lead me to go to hell, which are mine, but the final decision, when the hammer falls, its god's or not?

[Hoggen]

Originally Posted by boboo [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

So wait, god has no control over if I get sent to hell or not? Is that what youre saying? Do not evade the question, is the decision to send people to hell is made by god himself or it happens outside of his control? Im not talking about the decisions that would lead me to go to hell, which are mine, but the final decision, when the hammer falls, its god's or not?

God has no control over whether you spend your life responding in RnF, Boboo. That answer your question?

[boboo]

Originally Posted by Hoggen [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

God has no control over whether you spend your life responding in RnF, Boboo. That answer your question?

No

[Chanus]

Originally Posted by boboo [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

So wait, god has no control over if I get sent to hell or not? Is that what youre saying? Do not evade the question, is the decision to send people to hell is made by god himself or it happens outside of his control? Im not talking about the decisions that would lead me to go to hell, which are mine, but the final decision, when the hammer falls, its god's or not?

Does the criminal decide to go to jail or does the law decide to punish the criminal?

If the rules are there and you don't follow them, whose fault are the consequences?

[RocketMoose]

Originally Posted by boboo [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

So wait, god has no control over if I get sent to hell or not? Is that what youre saying? Do not evade the question, is the decision to send people to hell is made by god himself or it happens outside of his control? Im not talking about the decisions that would lead me to go to hell, which are mine, but the final decision, when the hammer falls, its god's or not?

The decision is yours and yours alone. God doesn't CHOOSE to send you to Hell. You by YOUR actions, and YOUR choices send yourself there.

Ezekiel 18:23
Ezekiel 33:11
2 Peter 3:9

God is Sovereign, He made the rules, He, being God, must abide by the rules that God himself set in place. He's not choosing for you to go to Hell, It's not His desire for you to go to Hell. It's like a Mom or Dad saying, no, don't do this, or you're going to go to timeout, if you do it, you go to timeout.

You're trying to make this about God choosing to send you to Hell, and no, He never wanted that. But if you choose that path, He's not going to just be like, oh okay, just kidding you can go to Heaven.

[boboo]

Originally Posted by RocketMoose [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You're trying to make this about God choosing to send you to Hell, and no, He never wanted that. But if you choose that path, He's not going to just be like, oh okay, just kidding you can go to Heaven.

Then you beleive the ultimate decision lies with god, wether or not he will condemn me to eternal suffering. Which to me, is absurd to the highest level. A loving god doesnt condemn people to eternal suffering because they do not beleive in god. Thats a god of hate and evil. Thats why i think christianity and other religions are bullshit. So without further ado, i dedicate this dayglo abortions song to God.

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