Rules Decent Players should abide by...

[iruinedyourday]

one simple rule is all you need.

[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

wait.. TWO simple rules.

[tizznyres]

Zenren, maybe you played on a utopian live server with a perfect guild and community of players in 1999, but this just isn't how the world works, in an mmorpg or not. Your list of rules strikes me as incredibly preachy and misguided.

Originally Posted by Zenren [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

1) You gave up a camp to a group of people appropriate level that wanted/needed to level there, especially if you gained no experience from the camp. If you needed a specific mob, then you made it clear they could level there, but you were camping the "boss".

This is almost always the case on P99, unless the person / people holding the camp are actually gaining EXP or items they need from it. Very rarely do people waste their time mass-killing monsters for no reason at all. Try communicating with whoever is there if you feel they are being unfair. If they aren't breaking any server rules, and aren't willing to cooperate, you should probably just accept it.

Originally Posted by Zenren [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

2) If you were power leveling someone and additional people showed up, you either let the other people join the PL group or you moved somewhere else so they could use that spot. We didn't believe that just because we had reached 60th that meant we had the right to be selfish, rather it was our chance to help other people out that were leveling up.

Very, very rarely will someone who is PLing their friends openly give up a huge portion, up to half, of the EXP they are gaining. This just doesn't make any sense. Part of the reward for leveling a high level character, is the benefit of helping your friends level. If you aren't their friend, please don't be so self-entitled as to expect them to share their time free of charge. This was just as true during classic era as it is on P99. Following your logic, should a player who is paying 1-2k an hour for PLing from a stranger, be just as willing to invite you and share half of this EXP, free of charge?

Originally Posted by Zenren [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

3) You let people join your group regardless of what gear they had or what class they were. We didn't worry as much about "gimp gear" or "that troll shadow knight getting all the xp!" We considered ourselves a community and tried to help each other out.

There is truth to this, I will agree. But keep in mind, during classic era, there were much fewer twinks and players who had already done the content multiple times. Kunark has been active for over 4 years on P99, and there are many players that know what they want, and want to achieve it quickly. Powergamers like to compose the most efficient groups, and it is perfectly reasonable for them to do so. Look around a bit more, and you will see that there are just as many, if not more, groups that will accept you whatever your class/race combo is, assuming it fills whatever role the group needs.

Originally Posted by Zenren [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

4) We tried to follow a need before greed rule, in fact EQ was where that term came from. This means that if a cleric item dropped at a camp and a cleric was there, you let the cleric have the item if he needed it. If they didn't you rolled.

This is extremely rare on P99, and was pretty rare during classic era as well, at least in my experience on Xegony and Fennin Ro from 1999-2002. As other people in this thread have stated, almost all items of value in Kunark are trade-able, and can easily go toward funding other items. If you go into pickup groups with strangers on P99 expecting need-before-greed to be the case, you are going to be sorely disappointed almost every time. If you feel this is the only decent way for a group to handle loot drops, make sure to make the loot system very clear well before you, or anyone else invests much time in your party. If you find some like-minded people, and make the NBG system clear beforehand, you can certainly run groups like this on P99. But it is not the understood norm, nor should it be considering the state of the game.

Originally Posted by Zenren [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

5) You helped your fellow player out. I don't know how many times I was running back to my corpse, ten zones away, and suddenly a "so and so wants to rez you" message popped up. No one asked for money or needed anything in return, they were just doing what was considered the right thing in that community. Random buffs were common at that time. As a gnome rogue I had people constantly buff me as I ran by (I'm sure sympathy played a large part).

Judging by your posts, I don't think you have actually spent all that much time on P99. I can assure you, there are a huge number of players who love helping others out. But there's a time and place for everything. Free rezzes, random buffs, and even free items are extremely commonplace on P99. But you need to not expect it 100% of the time, and be grateful when it happens, not resent every moment that it doesn't. If you really need help for something, and are willing to wait a short while, try making a request post on this forum. Chances are someone will help you before long.

Originally Posted by Zenren [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

6) We weren't fan bois. We didn't believe everything was alright and we called people out on their BS. If someone was doing something wrong the community addressed it. If someone ninja looted, it was just a matter of time before people found out. If a guild consistently behaved poorly, then they were treated accordingly. People didn't try to push these things under the bed or act like they weren't happening, they addressed them in the moment.

I don't understand what "fan bois" has to do with any of that, but everything else you state here DOES happen on P99. Check the other forums, if people are open assholes, they are called out both in-game, and name-and-shamed on the forums. If people ninja loot, they are called in the zone, reported to their guild, and sometimes even petitioned if the infraction is big enough. Individual players and entire guilds regularly get suspended for "behaving poorly" in all sorts of different ways. Very few people on P99 are "pushing these things under the bed". Stick around, and keep playing, and you will quickly see this to be true.

If you want my advice, stop dwelling on the negatives, and focus on the positives. In my P99 career, which has lasted over 5 years now, I have experienced much more positive interaction with players than negative. That being said, there are always bad apples, and even otherwise very generous and decent players have their bad days.

[Llodd]

Originally Posted by tizznyres [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This is extremely rare on P99, and was pretty rare during classic era as well, at least in my experience on Xegony and Fennin Ro from 1999-2002.

As a former Xegony player I found the opposite to be true. I was euro scum so the different time of playing may have had something to do with it.

read into that what you will.

[jarshale]

oh you're the same guy who was demanding people let you in their groups. get over it no one has to help you.

[Zenren]

Originally Posted by jarshale [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

oh you're the same guy who was demanding people let you in their groups. get over it no one has to help you.

I wasn't demanding... man you left out 99% of what I said and made one blanket comment to make me look bad. I was talking about one rogue who wouldn't let ANYONE in their group unless they were a cleric or twinked melee. Get it right and don't leave out so many details buddy.

[Troxx]

Originally Posted by Zenren [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I wasn't demanding... man you left out 99% of what I said and made one blanket comment to make me look bad. I was talking about one rogue who wouldn't let ANYONE in their group unless they were a cleric or twinked melee. Get it right and don't leave out so many details buddy.

At the end of the day that's their right to do so. If a twinked out character only wants to xp with other twinks to maximize their time - that's their decision. This isn't to say I agree with that decision, but you see soloing characters do this all the time. Why would that fear kiting necro invite you to xp with him if doing so does nothing but slow down his progress.

For myself? I prefer to meet and hang out with people - even if it slows down my acquisition of pixels.

If that rog was not twinked and as the leader only invited twinks and or necessary classes, my hope is that the twinks and necessary classes gave him the boot for riding their coat tails.

I wouldn't want to be lord and master of eq, but even if I were I wouldn't insist that others play by the set of principles that guide me.

So Zenren ... live and adapt ... but do not enforce your ideals on others. For the most part, p99 has been a great community and place to play. Bad eggs and sour grapes can be found everywhere.

A lot of what you describe = bad eggs.
The way you're behaving = sour grapes.

People don't like to be around either.

[Aviann]

Quit telling me how to live my life.

[Deadmantis]

Zenren, I feel your pain, really I do. But I think you just need to give up this fight and accept the fact that this server is what it is, and it's not going to change.

Decent players don't need rules to abide by. You're preaching to the choir. These people group with anyone regardless of class or gear. They call out their trains. They buff or bind without blinking an eye. We like to think they make up the majority. These are the people you need to gravitate to and spend most of your time with.

The asshats who shit on other players just because they can, with very little consequences? They don't and they won't play by the rules. They bounce from guild to guild, laugh at the forums, take bans in stride, and blame whatever shit they're trying to pull on Aspergers or the server being stuck in Kunark for too long. Avoid them as much as possible.

[Wfrench1234]

Aside from nbg decent players on this server already do all of the above. /thread

[tarkhis]

Originally Posted by Deadmantis [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Zenren, I feel your pain, really I do. But I think you just need to give up this fight and accept the fact that this server is what it is, and it's not going to change.

Decent players don't need rules to abide by. You're preaching to the choir. These people group with anyone regardless of class or gear. They call out their trains. They buff or bind without blinking an eye. We like to think they make up the majority. These are the people you need to gravitate to and spend most of your time with.

The asshats who shit on other players just because they can, with very little consequences? They don't and they won't play by the rules. They bounce from guild to guild, laugh at the forums, take bans in stride, and blame whatever shit they're trying to pull on Aspergers or the server being stuck in Kunark for too long. Avoid them as much as possible.

I think you hit the nail on the head. my experience was on Povar way back pre-kunark through PoP. I always saw NBG being used and if someone did try to scam other players(the asshats) they were called out on the forums and in guildchats and often found themselves perma LFG from that point on, your reputation on the server could make or break you so scamming for 1 stupid item, disrupting other peoples camps etc. could mean you were done and it was time to make a new toon or transfer. We had whole guilds get shunned by the combined group of all other guilds when they went after bosses out of rotation.

In P99 so far, my experience As so eloquently stated above, is I tend to follow Zenren's rules because I'm not an asshat and like grouping and being part of a community rather than racing to get the best gear etc. This server is not going past Luclin, we will all get there eventually so why go nuts and powerlevel like mad only to be stuck in a worse situation at endgame.

I don't care if someone else wants to powerlevel, twink, only group with uber people etc. That is their playstyle and right to play the game as they want.I will ask them if I can cut in or take part of the camp that they are doing and if they say no, get lost whatever, I move on.

So far I have never encountered that attitude in P99, I was in befallen as one of 3 people in zone a 60 Wizard, 13 twinked cleric being powereleveled and my 17 enchanter. I went down to 3rd floor and found everything being wholesale butchered. I asked if I could have some mobs and the wizard told me take the ones on the left side area. They even saved my butt when charm or mezz broke, offered me some drops they didn't need.

If they had told me to get lost I would of headed to another zone as they were there first and controlled the camp, I'm not into rule lawyering or petitioning non-stop. Here as in live I see common courtesy all the time and very rarely an asshat.

I've been in MM for about 12 levels now and that is an overcamped, crazy popular zone and I have seen nothing but courtesy there, everygroup I have been in never even set loot rules at the start we just kept killing mobs and people have shared gargoyle eyes, done NBG just as a matter of course. I have been with twinked, newbies, people from raiding guilds and unguilded people and everyone has been great.

I think the OP is letting a bad incident ruin his whole time in game and should drop it as the power gamers are going to tear him apart on the forums, and the ones who agree with his rules on courtesy are already practicing it anyway.