Hey Forsaken

[Jimjam]

I think you have to look at the implications of a ruling.

If TMO was allowed to drop out of Class C by rebranding, kill a few Class R mobs while waiting for a desirable set of Class C mobs to spawn then Class C guilds could do this every week, destroying the point of the Class C / Class R divide.

If the staff were to allow a Class C to rebrand into Class R they would have to impose a lock out timer on requalifying for becoming Class C in order to preserve the integrity of the class division.

[Alarti0001]

Originally Posted by Jimjam [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I think you have to look at the implications of a ruling.

If TMO was allowed to drop out of Class C by rebranding, kill a few Class R mobs while waiting for a desirable set of Class C mobs to spawn then Class C guilds could do this every week, destroying the point of the Class C / Class R divide.

If the staff were to allow a Class C to rebrand into Class R they would have to impose a lock out timer on requalifying for becoming Class C in order to preserve the integrity of the class division.

TMO died. Forsaken had 0 brand. By your opinion no new guild could enter Class R because they might go Class C some day. Try again

[Jimjam]

Originally Posted by Alarti0001 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

TMO died. Forsaken had 0 brand. By your opinion no new guild could enter Class R because they might go Class C some day. Try again

Staff opinion seems to be it was a rebrand, and that opinion is more relevant than whatever reality might have been.

What solution would you offer to prevent large groups of people flipping between classes by cycling the creation of new guilds?

Or do you not see that as a problem that would need to be addressed?

[Alarti0001]

Originally Posted by Jimjam [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Staff opinion seems to be it was a rebrand, and that opinion is more relevant than whatever reality might have been.

What solution would you offer to prevent large groups of people flipping between classes by cycling the creation of new guilds?

Or do you not see that as a problem that would need to be addressed?

You are asking me to try to make a smart raid scene with the current raid structure? I wouldn't. The system is inherently flawed.

[Prismaticshop]

Originally Posted by Jimjam [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Staff opinion seems to be it was a rebrand, and that opinion is more relevant than whatever reality might have been.

What solution would you offer to prevent large groups of people flipping between classes by cycling the creation of new guilds?

Or do you not see that as a problem that would need to be addressed?

Like guilds reform every Weeks or some shit ?

TMO has been around for years, it's not like their reform every weeks.

What matters is and the core of the argument is what makes a new entity? The big issue on top of that is that both class C entities reformed recently.

[Jimjam]

Originally Posted by Prismaticshop [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Like guilds reform every Weeks or some shit ?

I think if the ruling went the other way, this could have been a potential result.

Originally Posted by Prismaticshop [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

What matters is and the core of the argument is what makes a new entity? The big issue on top of that is that both class C entities reformed recently.

Agreed this is an issue. Until recently guilds have been easy to define. I have to agree with Alarti that the current system has all sorts of unintend consequences, such as having to redefine guild so it is more than just a tag (although I believe that was already a slight issue with the problems of 'alt guilds' in the past).

It's certainly an interesting discussion to read as someone completely outside to the guild scene.

[Gorillas]

Originally Posted by Jimjam [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I think if the ruling went the other way, this could have been a potential result.

Agreed this is an issue. Until recently guilds have been easy to define. I have to agree with Alarti that the current system has all sorts of unintend consequences, such as having to redefine guild so it is more than just a tag (although I believe that was already a slight issue with the problems of 'alt guilds' in the past).

It's certainly an interesting discussion to read as someone completely outside to the guild scene.

Hello! New player here and forum junkie. As an outside opinion it looks like TMO had a problem with their leadership and took the opportunity to restructure. During this restructure they took advantage of an unclear section of the raid rules combined with a Sirken post to change raid classes. Now that newly restructured guild is playing the Tiny Tim with no Soup ploy to act like they're being discriminated against even tho there is evidence (via a forum screenshot) that they AT THE LEAST knew they were doing something questionable.

Why didn't this new guild just contact the staff for clarification? If the raid force was 95% TMO members, wouldn't they be familiar with the possible repercussions of gaming the system? Sounds like they went for forgiveness instead of permission.

Asking for clear cut cases of precedent like its a courtroom is scary. How would all of that information ever be catalogued? The staff would have to maintain an archive of people bitching with detailed information on everything from characters present to guild rosters.

IM A LEVEL 9 MIN/MAX OGRE WAR IN EC!
As a side note, if you're complaining that this suspension is going to make your guild any less ready for Velious after you've farmed Kunark for years....uhh lol

[Misek84]

Originally Posted by Jimjam [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Staff opinion seems to be it was a rebrand, and that opinion is more relevant than whatever reality might have been.

What solution would you offer to prevent large groups of people flipping between classes by cycling the creation of new guilds?

Or do you not see that as a problem that would need to be addressed?

Lets be serious u really think forshaken was formed to cycle to R? If a guild was doing that it would be painfully obvious and no one would support them. You need to look at all the facts, and the simple fact that dkp was wiped, new loot system in place, new leadership, new website, etc proves this wasnt some "clever" scheme to cycle to R.