Please Address: STA > HP Confusion

[Synthlol]

Originally Posted by ccs88 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I had authored a section in the wiki 1-2 years ago concerning STA to HP conversions (see attached image for my original work).
I recently went to reference it, and noticed that somebody had removed the soft caps from my chart (see the new chart and the post that initiated this change).

I had based my evidence on personal testing, forum research (see this post from Daldaen and this post from Cecily for example), and verifying the conversions via the Magelo profiles on the wiki.

If I'm wrong here, then please provide some real evidence other than some heresay from a few randos.
Some insight from the devs would be great, although I can reference a 2014 post from Daldaen already.

Thanks.

I'm probably the one who removed your shit on the stamina softcap, but someone may have beaten me to the punch. I don't remember if it had already been fixed when I went to fix it.

The stamina soft cap doesn't exist on p99, and a part of me will resent you forever for putting that damn table in the wiki.

I rolled my monk with +20 to Strength because of your table. The sole reason I didn't do a full stamina roll was reading your part of the wiki explaining that stamina returns were halved above 115. Imagine my surprise when one day I had a stamina buff (read: over 115) and I was actually paying attention to my health values while swapping around gear. I noticed that taking off gear with some stamina caused my max hp to change more than I expected, considering I was above the 'softcap'. I noted the difference with and without a piece of STA gear, clicked off the buff to drop under 115,, and again compared values with and without the same piece of gear. Guess what, the differences were equal, and both of them equate to your 'sub-115' values for stamina returns. I've retested this on other characters with the same results. I've had friends and guildmates confirm these results.

If you had done your testing in the actual game, you would have found the same thing, and my monk would have rolled with +20 stamina like a smart one should. Majelo calculates character HP differently from the actual game if it halves HP returns above 115 STA. I really wish people like you didn't do what you do.

[joeintokyo]

I have never heard of diminishing returns on stats before 255. Once you were able to go over the 255 cap it went to 1.5 or something but not before.

After everyone understood stats a bit better on live it was always stamina all the way for most classes as it was one of the harder stats to max out for non-tanks.

[rubinoff]

Originally Posted by Synthlol [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'm probably the one who removed your shit on the stamina softcap, but someone may have beaten me to the punch. I don't remember if it had already been fixed when I went to fix it.

The stamina soft cap doesn't exist on p99, and a part of me will resent you forever for putting that damn table in the wiki.

I rolled my monk with +20 to Strength because of your table. The sole reason I didn't do a full stamina roll was reading your part of the wiki explaining that stamina returns were halved above 115. Imagine my surprise when one day I had a stamina buff (read: over 115) and I was actually paying attention to my health values while swapping around gear. I noticed that taking off gear with some stamina caused my max hp to change more than I expected, considering I was above the 'softcap'. I noted the difference with and without a piece of STA gear, clicked off the buff to drop under 115,, and again compared values with and without the same piece of gear. Guess what, the differences were equal, and both of them equate to your 'sub-115' values for stamina returns. I've retested this on other characters with the same results. I've had friends and guildmates confirm these results.

If you had done your testing in the actual game, you would have found the same thing, and my monk would have rolled with +20 stamina like a smart one should. Majelo calculates character HP differently from the actual game if it halves HP returns above 115 STA. I really wish people like you didn't do what you do.

Can confirm with my monk who has +20 to STA that there is no soft-cap [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[webrunner5]

Well you know Stamina is broken because you do not have to sit and regen it like on Live in the day. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

When you swung heavy weapons in a fight you had to sit and regen it till the Bar was nearly or full or you weren't going anywhere. And Shamans have buffs to raise Sta for more reasons than one. Not just the start of a fight to buff you. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[ccs88]

Originally Posted by Synthlol [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The stamina soft cap doesn't exist on p99, and a part of me will resent you forever for putting that damn table in the wiki.

Had I never made the chart and you went to research it, you would've found all the same numbers I did.
I made posts back then and nobody knew how it worked. Also, why would I assume Magelo is wrong?
Everything pointed me to this softcap and nothing said otherwise.
I was at the point of messaging 60's in game to test for me but it was too much work for them.
I wasn't going to make a 60 of every class when I had a good amount of information backing me up as it were.

TL;DR I put all the current info at the time into a chart. I don't feel I'm the one you should direct your anger at.

[Pint]

You made that guy distribute his starting points in a non optimal fashion!? OFF WITH THIS GUYS HEAD!!!!!!

[webrunner5]

Originally Posted by Pint [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You made that guy distribute his starting points in a non optimal fashion!? OFF WITH THIS GUYS HEAD!!!!!!

Heh, yeah very true. There is a LOT of things in this game that even the Devs have no clue about totally.

I think and have always thought for a Melee you need tons of Str, Sta, AC and HP on top of that.

That is one hell of a lot of things to figure out on the starting points and gear selection. But some classes, say a Gnome Warrior, are really screwed even at the start compared to a Ogre. But lots of people play them anyways.

But the 4 things I mentioned you need not counting great Weapons and Haste item are a MUST for a Tank. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[Synthlol]

Originally Posted by ccs88 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Had I never made the chart and you went to research it, you would've found all the same numbers I did.
Everything pointed me to this softcap and nothing said otherwise.
TL;DR I put all the current info at the time into a chart. I don't feel I'm the one you should direct your anger at.

I simply see you as the reason that I made a mistake which I wish I hadn't. I don't wish you any harm or ill-will. I'd call it annoyance, not anger. But you are certainly where it should be directed, and I certainly wouldn't have found the same numbers you did. Everything pointed to the softcap except for what actually happens in the game when you test it.

If it disagrees with experiment, it's wrong.

Originally Posted by Pint [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You made that guy distribute his starting points in a non optimal fashion!? OFF WITH THIS GUYS HEAD!!!!!!

I understand that I'll always be down 80hp because of my own choice, and that's just something I've had to accept. It'd just be nice if our source for info on the finer points of game was based on the actual behavior of the game. It's a good habit to keep.

[ccs88]

Originally Posted by Synthlol [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

But you are certainly where it should be directed, and I certainly wouldn't have found the same numbers you did. Everything pointed to the softcap except for what actually happens in the game when you test it.

If it disagrees with experiment, it's wrong.

That's easy to say when you have level 60 characters at your disposal, and if you did, why would you trust a stranger's chart?
You should know that a wiki page is maintained by users. I sincerely doubt that you would've found the right numbers unless you asked a monk to strip down and pull out a calculator (good luck with that).
You would have to trust what they told you, too.

Pulling out a Feynman video is a little much when you did zero experiment on the matter and are trying to blame somebody else for it. Sorry.

[Synthlol]

Originally Posted by ccs88 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

That's easy to say when you have level 60 characters at your disposal, and if you did, why would you trust a stranger's chart?URL]

The fact that I fucked up by taking your word for it is the entire point I am making - your word is fundamentally flawed.

I figured this out as a monk in my mid 20s.

It's not about knowing the exact numbers, it's about figuring out that the returns don't change past 115.

Please think things through more often.