Petition: Guild raid suspensions should be progressively longer every time

[Tiggles]

Originally Posted by toolshed [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

GM decisions are their own and you guys have no reason to listen to any of us on this stuff, but....

I just wanted to say that you would have support if you guys decided that raid suspensions should get longer every time a guild was suspended. A guild that has been suspended 6 times should be treated differently than a guild that has never been suspended.

Maybe increase the suspension by one week for every time they have been suspended before? 1 week for first suspension, mandatory 2 week suspension for their second infraction, 3 weeks for their third, etc. Yes, a guild that has been suspended FOUR TIMES should be raid banned for a month - that is taking it lightly.

This would have a couple of effects: 1) guilds that continually shit on the community and break the rules are punished more harshly, 2) make a guild less likely to break the rules since they know they have a limited times to 'mess up', 3) if a new guild does not know the rules and genuinely makes a mistake, they will not be punished as hard as a guild that is continually making the same 'mistakes'

Nah

[Loke]

You guys act like suspensions are the result of players maliciously plotting to break the rules, when in actuality it is usually simple mistakes or single members not understanding some of the ridiculously complicated, ever changing, subjective, and poorly documented rules.

It seems like every few weeks there is some random person chiming in with their own brand of how to fix the raid scene, when 9 times out of 10 they aren't part of the raid scene and have no idea what is actually going on. I have no idea who the OP is, but a system like that makes absolutely no sense for at least the class C guilds (I can't speak to class R since I haven't paid attention to what is going on with them).

Not only that, but this change would result in rule lawyering becoming more important as guilds try to get out of suspensions and get their competition suspended.

[toolshed]

Originally Posted by Loke [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You guys act like suspensions are the result of players maliciously plotting to break the rules, when in actuality it is usually simple mistakes or single members not understanding some of the ridiculously complicated, ever changing, subjective, and poorly documented rules.

I agree that the rules are overly complicated, but transparency in raid suspensions themselves would help in understanding what to do and what not to do.

And I doubt that TMO and IB are having their brand new members pull mobs to their raids. People in these guilds know what they are doing and the ignorance-excuse is pretty appalling considering how old this game is and how long we have been playing it. You kind of made my point though: TMO and IB would be more cautious in regards to pulling/raiding in general if they knew that the stakes were higher.

The top guilds know what the rules are man, lets just be honest. The top guilds helped write the rules.

PS - I have no idea who you are either. The difference between us that I don't care who you are.

[Frieza_Prexus]

Originally Posted by toolshed [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

And I doubt that TMO and IB are having their brand new members pull mobs to their raids.

You'd be surprised. A good amount of these infractions are the result of exactly this.

One interesting fact is that guilds have, several times over the years, been disciplined over inexperienced puller error only for that player to deguild within minutes and join the competition as a "reward" for the error with no punishment following the erring player.

[HallyVee]

Originally Posted by Loke [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Not only that, but this change would result in rule lawyering becoming more important as guilds try to get out of suspensions and get their competition suspended.

I can't speak to the rest of your argument but this part is like saying we shouldn't criminalize bank robbing because the bank robbers would then have incentive to rob banks to pay for their lawyers, who defend them from bank robbing charges.

[YendorLootmonkey]

Sirken should just host a weekly Judge Judy-esque public trial on Twitch to go over the presented evidence, determine guilt, and dish out the sentence. I would watch that.

[kaev]

Originally Posted by HallyVee [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I can't speak to the rest of your argument but this part is like saying we shouldn't criminalize bank robbing because the bank robbers would then have incentive to rob banks to pay for their lawyers, who defend them from bank robbing charges.

Congratulations! You have attained a full and complete understanding of the p99 raid scene and the means used to regulate it.

[Frieza_Prexus]

Originally Posted by HallyVee [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I can't speak to the rest of your argument but this part is like saying we shouldn't criminalize bank robbing because the bank robbers would then have incentive to rob banks to pay for their lawyers, who defend them from bank robbing charges.

Not entirely. Increasing the penalties will incentivize further abuse of the process unless it is severely refined.

Class C currently has an ultimatum to "work out minor problems." A good portion of these are indeed worked out internally, but only because the "reward" for petitioning is minor in comparison. As the damage to your competition increases, the incentive to petition, no matter the cause, rises as well.

Currently, a petition risks annoying the GMs. It's often not worth it for minor offenses because it'll maybe result in a mob or two. However, when your competition would be banned for several weeks at a time, it becomes extremely worth it to manufacture and fabricate offenses. It's been done before, and it will most certainly be incentivized under the proposed system unless there are serious changes in the petition process.

[toolshed]

Originally Posted by Tiggles [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Nah

Could you (or TMO in general) please elaborate on why you think this would be a bad policy going forward?