Let's talk about natural progression here.

[FadedVision]

It's free and so is complaining. League of Legends is a free game and people complain about it all the time, they patch and fix bugs constantly(just an example and I'm not trying to take you on).

I'm being critical to the players that maybe they will stop being greed mongers and to GM's that could see this statement and maybe say... "maybe rogues shouldn't be epic'd until 50" and ban the MQ or stop it in some way since it's more of an anomaly here than it was on live(by a large margin). This is a free server, decisions should be made to protect the integrity of the game. That would help both leveling rogues and keep the game more natural. I would gladly donate money if I was happy with the game.(keep in mind)

I do like this server and love the idea that they came up with, natural progression. That's all I'm arguing is that they should do more to ensure the natural progression. If daybreak does it correctly, I will pay them money to play their version, which they announced recently.

[maskedmelon]

The staff have made decisions to protect the integrity of the game. They have embraced the well reasoned principles of simplicity and objectivity. Their design goals are to recreate the classic mechanics and they remain objective in their implementation to avoid the inevitable ferris wheel of insanity associated with feeling based decision making.

There is no merit to any of your complaints because they only delay completion of the primary project goal. Once all code has been satisfactorily restored in its entirety, staff can (and I am sure will) devote time to what ought to be done to maintain the server.

Your argument of greed here is greedy in its own right. Whether your claim is on your own behalf or that of others is irrelevant, because either way you would benefit (either directly via greater access, or indirectly via the satisfaction gained via realization of your perverse notion of fairness) at the expense of others who have invested more (be the suppliers or purchasers of MQ.

I do not farm MQ, because I am fortunate to be able to play 10-15 hours a week. There are those who are unable to play that much and that can place epics out of reach for many. I may not be able to raid posky for 6 hours, but I can save enough money to purchase my epic over the course of a year of consistent play. There are classes that can make money significantly faster than I can, but you don't see me calling for nerfs to those classes because I chose not to play them.

The notion of fairness suggested in your posts is nothing more than subsidizing failure while penalizing success. It ensures that epics are reserved only for a select few, regardless of investment. Please consider this.

[harnold]

Originally Posted by maskedmelon [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The staff have made decisions to protect the integrity of the game. They have embraced the well reasoned principles of simplicity and objectivity.

LOLed at this garbage

[maskedmelon]

Originally Posted by harnold [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

LOLed at this garbage

Just because they may have strayed from the path does not mean they have embraced any other principle. Their reluctance to remedy the raid scene is a perfect example. They strayed from the path there and new problems crept from the field they'd thought they cleared. The night vision need attempt is another example. They tried to implement a classic mechanic, but the hack did not function the same on all machines and so it was rolled back. I know there are plenty more examples of where they have failed to implement classic features while straying to implement non-classic ones, bit that does not mean their objectives are any different or that they are cherry picking. It just means they are human.

[FadedVision]

Ok Ayn Rand, you can take your economics arguments back to your 401 theory class. I am here to have fun and enjoy the game, not argue Milton Friedman.

I will argue with the main point that you made, that if you have the money you should be able to buy what you want. Sure, non no drop items. That is a relevant point. Non-no drop items, such as epics. Which are made to bring guilds together and form a raid atmosphere that is the jest of a fun and enjoyable experience on the game. That is why epics exist and the idea that you can get one at level 1 is an exploit. You are not entitled to an epic, you pass a test. Just as you are not entitled to drive a car, you pass a test.

I am not singling the blame out at anyone. I am just trying to be constructive that a change in the MQ structure might be good for the server. Think of me as an opinionated beta tester stating my opinion. If you want to flame me, go for it. It doesn't mean my opinion isnt that of a large majority of the players and it should not be held in consideration.

[Thatt]

Originally Posted by FadedVision [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

... It doesn't mean my opinion isnt that of a large majority of the players and it should not be held in consideration...

I wholeheartedly believe you're wasting your breath, tilting at windmills, but I wanted to add my voice.. I agree that mq's in their entirety should be taken out of the game.

[Ele]

Originally Posted by FadedVision [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You are not entitled to an epic, you pass a test. Just as you are not entitled to drive a car, you pass a test.

You don't get a car at the end of your driving test.

I am just trying to be constructive that a change in the MQ structure might be good for the server. Think of me as an opinionated beta tester stating my opinion.

Have you tried submitting a bug report?

This thread regarding required levels to quest epic quest items has been around since 2012 with no clear resolution, since you can MQ epics before level 50 on the live servers and EQMac, when it was still up.

Please feel free to add constructive evidence one way or the other.

[FadedVision]

Originally Posted by Ele [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You don't get a car at the end of your driving test.

Sometimes you do. Sometimes you get one before hand, you can't drive it until you meet the requirements though. That is the point that was lost, I think. Keep in mind, this is not an exact equivalent comparison. It is just the one that popped in my mind at the time I wrote the post and actually seems to be holding up fairly well.

[maskedmelon]

Originally Posted by FadedVision [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Ok Ayn Rand, you can take your economics arguments back to your 401 theory class. I am here to have fun and enjoy the game, not argue Milton Friedman.

I will argue with the main point that you made, that if you have the money you should be able to buy what you want. Sure, non no drop items. That is a relevant point. Non-no drop items, such as epics. Which are made to bring guilds together and form a raid atmosphere that is the jest of a fun and enjoyable experience on the game. That is why epics exist and the idea that you can get one at level 1 is an exploit. You are not entitled to an epic, you pass a test. Just as you are not entitled to drive a car, you pass a test.

I am not singling the blame out at anyone. I am just trying to be constructive that a change in the MQ structure might be good for the server. Think of me as an opinionated beta tester stating my opinion. If you want to flame me, go for it. It doesn't mean my opinion isnt that of a large majority of the players and it should not be held in consideration.

I am here to have fun too, just as everyone else is. We all have our own ideas of what that is and it would be unreasonable to assume there is no variation, as I am sure you would agree . As it stands everyone is capable of procuring an epic given they invest enough (time being the relevant currency). What you propose would not only deny some people access to the epic entirely , it would also deny people of a source of revenue that they have gained access to through investment in their character (which is oddly what you aim to reward by limiting MQ).

In your driver's license analogy, you equate the epic reward to a driver's license and that is fine, but you should understand that there are hazards associated with operating a vehicle, the like of which are nowhere present our game.

Also, the analogy does not reflect the reality of the MQ situation in its entirety. To do that we would need to amend it such that only persons who's incomes exceed $50k a year (equating salary or rate of pay with EQ rate of play, or time investment) and belong to a church, fraternity, or other civic/social group may qualify to take a driving exam. That is more akin to how epic quests were designed. Player ingenuity however has broadened the market, by offering alternative paths of advancement via comparable, but more diversified qualification criteria. ^^ I think that is a beautiful thing.

What you are advocating would benefit none while harming others. As it stands everyone can attain their epic given sufficient work, just as anyone in the free world can drive a Ferrari given sufficient work. ^^

[Toodles]

Originally Posted by maskedmelon [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The staff have made decisions to protect the integrity of the game. They have embraced the well reasoned principles of simplicity and objectivity. Their design goals are to recreate the classic mechanics and they remain objective in their implementation to avoid the inevitable ferris wheel of insanity associated with feeling based decision making.

Wow what a load of white knight shit.

Get a dictionary so you can look up "integrity." Make sure it's got one of those sentence examples, so you can understand it in context.

Then drop by one of the 'summits'(coughakaareasonforSirkentoraisehistwitch channelprofile), and find out from them how Variance is a 'well reasoned principle of simplicity and objectivity.'

After you're done with that, have a read through the guild sub forum archive and provide us a few examples of 'objective' behavior towards the implementation of classic mechanics.


Free doesn't have to mean bad, and it furthermore doesn't have to mean bad attitude. A soup kitchen is free food for homeless people, it doesn't mean you can also disrespect them and then go 'hey stfu, it's free, so you can't complain.'

The reality is, bad decisions have been made and nothing is done to accommodate what the staff all knew would happen even before the server launched.

Hopefully the liveserver works out, because the variable of money will encourage Daybreak not to let the MAJORITY suffer(which constitutes all of the players who mare not happy about MQs, EPIC mob blocking and bot camping, the variance, three years of Kunark, exploits, RMTs, TMO, corpsing and every other issue we have).