bind killing scum circumventing the rules

[Baugi]

Originally Posted by Nirgon [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I mean it literally only serves the point of gratifying people who try to stack K/D in any way they can, absolutely no other penalty than that

Why are global kill messages a thing if K/D farming is frowned upon?

If you want to reward skilled PVP, you need something with more information like Eve's KM. If you want to discourage non-objective based PVP, you just remove the messages.

Current system seems like the worst of both ends of the spectrum.

(just rambling)

[Nirgon]

Originally Posted by Baugi [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Why are global kill messages a thing if K/D farming is frowned upon?

Like the raid mob shouts on blue, it serves as a way to quell shit between players who constantly twist things.

YT is at least useful in that regard, it assists in player/community enforcement of LNS.

Where it is not useful is someone dies and gets paragraphs of shit talk from randoms. This can be countered with a thick skin or /ignore.


Not being allowed to corpse camp people is classic and you can't trust people to be honest about how they died here tbh.

[HippoNipple]

Originally Posted by Nirgon [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Like the raid mob shouts on blue, it serves as a way to quell shit between players who constantly twist things.

YT is at least useful in that regard, it assists in player/community enforcement of LNS.

Where it is not useful is someone dies and gets paragraphs of shit talk from randoms. This can be countered with a thick skin or /ignore.


Not being allowed to corpse camp people is classic and you can't trust people to be honest about how they died here tbh.

YT came out before any of the LnS or play nice policies. If I remember right, YT and /ooc both came out at the same time and it was to help with the feeling of Red99 being barren. Group exp was also not in at this time. Most players sub 50 would log in, solo in a zone with no one in it and log off without ever seeing any proof that there was another player on the box.

It helps people find where the PvP is if they want to join in. It also makes the server feel like shit is going on.

[Bodybagger]

Originally Posted by HippoNipple [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

YT came out before any of the LnS or play nice policies. If I remember right, YT and /ooc both came out at the same time and it was to help with the feeling of Red99 being barren. Group exp was also not in at this time. Most players sub 50 would log in, solo in a zone with no one in it and log off without ever seeing any proof that there was another player on the box.

It helps people find where the PvP is if they want to join in. It also makes the server feel like shit is going on.

But the negative effects go directly against the intentions of its implementation.

They just need to remove /anon /role hiding level and class at least... or make /role show level and class and guild tag, but hide zone... that'd be the best. Let you log in and find in range people for pvp and grouping... then combined with YT showing the zone a kill occurs in, people can hone in on PVP in their level range.

50+ pvp essentially works this way because everyone knows everyone's range mostly with limited players. If all PVP worked this way it'd be more exciting to see YT, because it would lead to more PVP from people who seek out PVP, not just twinks who camp zones to grief free kills with no risk.

[HippoNipple]

Originally Posted by Bodybagger [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

But the negative effects go directly against the intentions of its implementation.

They just need to remove /anon /role hiding level and class at least... or make /role show level and class and guild tag, but hide zone... that'd be the best. Let you log in and find in range people for pvp and grouping... then combined with YT showing the zone a kill occurs in, people can hone in on PVP in their level range.

50+ pvp essentially works this way because everyone knows everyone's range mostly with limited players. If all PVP worked this way it'd be more exciting to see YT, because it would lead to more PVP from people who seek out PVP, not just twinks who camp zones to grief free kills with no risk.

You could also just adjust yellow text so that it didn't say a players name. It could list the guild names or put in guildless in it's place along with what zone the death happened in. This doesn't solve bind camping but LnS rules already take care of this. If a player is being bind camped and can't figure out how to LnS that is their problem.

What it would solve.

Twinks - no longer would they receive individual recognition. If Sirken stuck to his 10+ minimum for guilds most of the small twink guilds would go away as well. Twinks would then just be killing for the fun of it as it should be.

Selfishness - No longer would wizards and rogues dominate the leaderboards. It would all be about guilds. The clerics finally get equal weight in recognition. Classes with utility that keep people alive finally help the group as a whole get recognition. Jeremy's leaderboards would simply show the guild that killed and the guild that died along with zone and time stamp. No points or individual players. Guildless would be attached to all non guilded kills/deaths.

What it preserves.

It still shows PvP activity and players can sort of tell the level just by what zone and guild is involved. It also allows PvP guilds to have recognition as a whole.


Problems

If a top tier guild found another top tier guilds player afk and killed them for 2 hours straight to inflate numbers for their guild. I don't have a solution to this and that would suck. Hard to fix everything. It also keeps the incentive for players that really care about their guilds k/d ratio to rule lawyer for easy naked kills. I think it lessens the incentive because most players like this are pretty selfish and care more about their individual score than guild k/d ratio.

[Bodybagger]

Originally Posted by HippoNipple [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You could also just adjust yellow text so that it didn't say a players name. It could list the guild names or put in guildless in it's place along with what zone the death happened in. This doesn't solve bind camping but LnS rules already take care of this. If a player is being bind camped and can't figure out how to LnS that is their problem.

What it would solve.

Twinks - no longer would they receive individual recognition. If Sirken stuck to his 10+ minimum for guilds most of the small twink guilds would go away as well. Twinks would then just be killing for the fun of it as it should be.

Selfishness - No longer would wizards and rogues dominate the leaderboards. It would all be about guilds. The clerics finally get equal weight in recognition. Classes with utility that keep people alive finally help the group as a whole get recognition. Jeremy's leaderboards would simply show the guild that killed and the guild that died along with zone and time stamp. No points or individual players. Guildless would be attached to all non guilded kills/deaths.

What it preserves.

It still shows PvP activity and players can sort of tell the level just by what zone and guild is involved. It also allows PvP guilds to have recognition as a whole.


Problems

If a top tier guild found another top tier guilds player afk and killed them for 2 hours straight to inflate numbers for their guild. I don't have a solution to this and that would suck. Hard to fix everything. It also keeps the incentive for players that really care about their guilds k/d ratio to rule lawyer for easy naked kills. I think it lessens the incentive because most players like this are pretty selfish and care more about their individual score than guild k/d ratio.

I agree with all of that. Pretty annoyed Pokes afk'd in OoT and Holoscum took 15 kills off it last night... 0 point kills get you zero points but a kill is a kill for kill count and a death a death *shrug*

Other upside to making role/anon show level and class still however is the massive benefit to group formation. Holo succeeds because a zerg guild on a server full of /anon/role characters, Zerg gets beyond the anonymity and gets you access to LFG for half the server

Remove this and remove a large portion of the power of the zerg for newbs. I briefly attempted red dawn I think on my rogue, simple because I had dropped off box for 3 months, knew no one, and had no core player group to grind with, and needed a way past anonymity to get to in range players for xp

edit: I think it's important to ignore leader board when consider how to improve box health both pve and pvp (I say pve because if people can't level and gear they can't pvp with your leveled geared players, that simple). I think leaderboard is aftermath and is separate from server and shouldn't matter in most discussions. Let newbs find groups easier and not have to congregate in chokehold zones with griefers and it won't matter if they get leaderboard topping kills or not, the newbs won't have to go to them. It also makes ht 50+ game that much easier without being in one of the top 2-3 factions as well. It's a pretty elegant solution I think and comes from collaborating a few different ideas into one succinct solution

[HippoNipple]

Originally Posted by Bodybagger [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I agree with all of that. Pretty annoyed Pokes afk'd in OoT and Holoscum took 15 kills off it last night... 0 point kills get you zero points but a kill is a kill for kill count and a death a death *shrug*

Other upside to making role/anon show level and class still however is the massive benefit to group formation. Holo succeeds because a zerg guild on a server full of /anon/role characters, Zerg gets beyond the anonymity and gets you access to LFG for half the server

Remove this and remove a large portion of the power of the zerg for newbs. I briefly attempted red dawn I think on my rogue, simple because I had dropped off box for 3 months, knew no one, and had no core player group to grind with, and needed a way past anonymity to get to in range players for xp

edit: I think it's important to ignore leader board when consider how to improve box health both pve and pvp (I say pve because if people can't level and gear they can't pvp with your leveled geared players, that simple). I think leaderboard is aftermath and is separate from server and shouldn't matter in most discussions. Let newbs find groups easier and not have to congregate in chokehold zones with griefers and it won't matter if they get leaderboard topping kills or not, the newbs won't have to go to them. It also makes ht 50+ game that much easier without being in one of the top 2-3 factions as well. It's a pretty elegant solution I think and comes from collaborating a few different ideas into one succinct solution

I don't understand what you are saying taking out /anon/roleplay will do. If you can see someones name, guild and zone it would just destroy any chance of smaller guilds surviving. Holocaust could zerg Azrael anytime they wanted. You would know exactly who was where and how many you would need for a victory. A small guild needs to able to organize, prepare, take down a group and get out. If the zerg knows where they are going by typing /who they would have no chance.

People can find groups from /ooc. They don't need to rely on /who to find people within their level range. Everyone is in a guild at level 50+ anyways and if you aren't in someone's guild 50+ you should be KoS. So knowing where people are that are KoS to you is not going to help you level up, it is just going to hurt you.

Leaderboards become relevant in game discussions when the leaderboards dictate player behavior. If people like Silvers thrive off of seeing their name in the top 20 they will take kills whenever they can no matter how cheap it is. It also makes people more likely to plug. Why wouldn't it be in the discussion? The leaderboards get all of its information through YT. You adjust YT and it changes the leaderboards. The leaderboards alter player behavior.