What attitudes and philosophies do you hate in P1999?

[drktmplr12]

Originally Posted by myriverse [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

There were not Wikis, but there were various websites, which were sort of prototypes for Wikis.

But I agree. I just don't see the difference between plotting points and paths on a screen and doing it on paper. There was nothing at all about the ingame map that made the game easier.

I just want to point out that the interactive nature of an in game map is completely different than having a map on another monitor or printed out (this is how i did it in 2000) on your desk. Your character is a little "+" in the center. I could navigate through an entire zone without even looking at anything 3D, just by navigating my little "+" through the map that someone else made. I think directions along the lines of "follow the left wall until" is a testament to the difference between no map and an interactive map.

Anyone else ever buy this? EQ Atlas I loved mine. Had lore and points of interest, but it was lost/thrown out one time i moved. Sad.

[Xer0]

Originally Posted by drktmplr12 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I just want to point out that the interactive nature of an in game map is completely different than having a map on another monitor or printed out (this is how i did it in 2000) on your desk. Your character is a little "+" in the center. I could navigate through an entire zone without even looking at anything 3D, just by navigating my little "+" through the map that someone else made. I think directions along the lines of "follow the left wall until" is a testament to the difference between no map and an interactive map.

Anyone else ever buy this? EQ Atlas I loved mine. Had lore and points of interest, but it was lost/thrown out one time i moved. Sad.

>Implying people pay attention to anything but the zone wall when attempting to navigate around a zone for the first time.


We're all aware that you don't get a cursor to follow your character, but it does not make the game itself any easier, and that right there is what I cannot stand. People think in order for the game to be good and challenging it has to be a stripped down barebones featureless mockup of a game and that simply is not true.

Unless the great challenge EQ posed to you was attempting to find a specific area in a zone, you've posed an entirely pointless argument.

Keep in mind I'm not at all trying to get the maps back, in the few months since I've returned I've managed to get most of the zones down pat (well trulyn I never forgot most of it from my last stint in '14), I just find the attitude of most of the "shits classic" fanatics to be nothing short of deplorable.

[Ravager]

Originally Posted by Xer0 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Umless the great challenge EQ posed to you was attempting to find a specific area in a zone, that's a pointless argument.

That, in fact, was one of the great challenges. Getting lost in EQ was a dangerous thing and made Norrath a much larger world.

[Xer0]

Originally Posted by Ravager [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

That, in fact, was one of the great challenges. Getting lost in EQ was a dangerous thing and made Norrath a much larger world.

not if you use maps out of game (everyone does)

Since I started playing on p99 I've not got lost once (truly pants shittingly lost i.e. playing in 2000, night blind and lost in gfay) despite the lack of in game map. Why? Wiki maps and sense heading bindings. Your point is moot.

Again I urge you to keep in mind: I'm not trying to get maps brought back, I just want to point out the attitude people carry here in regards to simple things like a map and compass is absolutely absurd

[Ravager]

Originally Posted by Xer0 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

not if you use maps out of game (everyone does)

Since I started playing on p99 I've not got lost once (truly pants shittingly lost i.e. playing in 2000, night blind and lost in gfay) despite the lack of in game map. Why? Wiki maps and sense heading bindings. Your point is moot.

Again I urge you to keep in mind: I'm not trying to get maps brought back, I just want to point out the attitude people carry here in regards to simplethings like a map and compass is absolutely incredulous.

Not really moot. There's a difference between looking at a map, using Sense Heading, /loc and landmarks to determine where you are and having a HUD with an arrow representing exactly where you are and where you are facing. In one scenario you're told where you are, the other you still have to figure it out for yourself.

But you need to be right, so I digress, you are absolutely 100% right.

[Xer0]

Originally Posted by Ravager [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Not really moot. There's a difference between looking at a map, using Sense Heading, /loc and landmarks to determine where you are and having a HUD with an arrow representing exactly where you are and where you are facing. In one scenario you're told where you are, the other you still have to figure it out for yourself.

But you need to be right, so I digress, you are absolutely 100% right.

/loc is not required. I've never become proficient with the location system and I get around quite nicely. Basically they removed 2 wholly unnecessary steps (discerning /loc, cross referencing with external map) with the addition of the in game map. That's it. It basically saves time and a small (even minute) amount of effort.. aka people spend more time in game, playing, rather than treating it as a chore or a project they must do research on before undertaking. To say removing that this made the game effectively more challenging is just silly.

[maskedmelon]

Originally Posted by Xer0 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

/loc is not required. I've never become proficient with the location system and I get around quite nicely. Basically they removed 2 wholly unnecessary steps (discerning /loc, cross referencing with external map) with the addition of the in game map. That's it. It basically saves time and a small (even minute) amount of effort.. aka people spend more time in game, playing, rather than treating it as a chore or a project they must do research on before undertaking. To say removing that this made the game effectively more challenging is just silly.

Right, so if we summarize your arguments thus far we have:

1. Maps do not make things easier.
2. Your definition of easier is no different from the ordinary definition.
3. Maps just make things take less time and effort.

Let's take a look at the 1st entry from dictionary. Com for the word easy:

"Not hard or difficult; requiring no great labor or effort."

Now "easier" is a comparative form of "easier." This means something that is easier requires less effort. One of your conclusions is therefore false.

Let's take a look at another of your arguments:

People who embrace a classic approach to development also oppose night blindness.

This appears to be a strawman/ad hominem because it mischaracterizes the position of those it is supposedly intended to represent with the sole purpose of support an argument against them. Thus far no such persons have come forward to support this assertion . In fact all respondents thus far have acted contrary to your assertion. Your assertion therefore is either false or the respondents are not representative of the group to which they claim to belong. Which do you suppose is the case?

Whether maps make hints easier or more fun, etc. is irrelevant in light of the goal of his project. You are entitled to your own opinions, but please do not mischaracterize those of others in an attempt to invalidate their argument. That is dishonest and disruptive if intentional. We all make mistakes though, so no big deal if you were sincere in your belief. It is also possible that you are still right, there just does not appear to be any evidence to that effect at the moment. Should you find any, please do not hesitate to share ^^

[Lady Julae]

Originally Posted by Xer0 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

/loc is not required. I've never become proficient with the location system and I get around quite nicely. Basically they removed 2 wholly unnecessary steps (discerning /loc, cross referencing with external map) with the addition of the in game map. That's it. It basically saves time and a small (even minute) amount of effort.. aka people spend more time in game, playing, rather than treating it as a chore or a project they must do research on before undertaking. To say removing that this made the game effectively more challenging is just silly.

You realize here you just completely contradicted your argument? Part of the challenge of no maps is that you DO have to do research to learn the world. If maps don't make the game easier, why would you want maps? Do you get lost easily? Is learning a zone too much information for your brain to accommodate?

The argument the pro-no map party is trying to make is that having no maps is challenging because it challenges your brain, your knowledge of the game, and ultimately your skill at navigating the game world. Having a map requires no skill nor memorization, in turn, it makes you a less skillful player in comparison.

[Ele]

Originally Posted by Xer0 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

We're all aware that you don't get a cursor to follow your character, but it does not make the game itself any easier, and that right there is what I cannot stand.

What is your definition of easier? Because with the commonly accepted definition you keep misusing the word.

[Xer0]

No sir, I'm fairly certain I'm not. Maps just dont make games easier, plain and simple.

No night blindness definitely makes the game easier. Being able to see the rest of the world while medding also makes the game easier.

It's the simple things like the way a mob resisting one cast can spell the difference between a ding and a death, painfully slow hp/mana regen, and just the general unforgiving nature of the game mechanics that spell out a challenge.. NOT whether or not I can hit a button and bring up maps (Protip: I can do this anyway with the steam overlay)