Paladin vs SK

[Loadsamoney]

Originally Posted by kaev [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Aye, Paladin Sky loot is weak.

The better of the two one-handers is race-restricted (what the fucking fuckity fuck fuck?). I do use the inferior 1-hander (or once in a while the silly Bixie Sword Blade) with an SBS when it's necessary to avoid agro, but that doesn't make it good. (I am half tempted to redo Fiery Avenger just to have a low agro 2H option.) The Wind Etched Armor pieces just barely qualify as upgrades over Valorium and besides that they drop only from poopsock favorite Noble Dojorn. The trash drop Symbol of Marr looks good when you first see it, but you soon realize that its AC/Wis/Str are far less important than HP and/or Resists on raid gear so you never wear it, as opposed to the Cleric's Weight of the Gods or the Druid's Treant Tear & etc.

In the end you have only the haste belt. There's really nothing to compare to the marvelous toys most everybody else gets. It's a nice haste belt, but while 41% haste is exciting on a pure melee it's just kinda neat on a knight who has shit for dps regardless and relies on spell-casting for agro (make it an FT3 belt and it would be exciting [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]).

Pally Epic DPS is nothing to laugh at with the 41% haste. Double Attack with a hard hitting 2her like FD + the 155 Stun Proc produces some juicy numbers.

[kaev]

Originally Posted by Loadsamoney [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Pally Epic DPS is nothing to laugh at with the 41% haste. Double Attack with a hard hitting 2her like FD + the 155 Stun Proc produces some juicy numbers.

Compare to similarly geared Rogue or Monk and you'll quickly notice that Paladin is a tank and not ever to be confused with or described as a DPS class. Compare apples to apples (tanks to tanks) and you'll see that equivalently geared Warrior or SK outdamages the Paladin (not by much, but when you tout the damage output of a Paladin you're asking to be shown the light.) Sure, compared to indifferently geared EC twinks an epic'd & planar geared Paladin looks good, just as any other class looks good when they're geared far better than those they're compared to.

The Paladin's a knight tank, enough HP/AC to make Complete Heal powerful and to not be insta-gibbed except by the most outrageous raid bosses (the one bone the EQ devs tossed Warriors) plus excellent agro ability, with a bit of utility on the side. Why are we talking about Paladin DPS, except to laugh and point out that only the Cleric does less?

[Loadsamoney]

Originally Posted by kaev [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Compare to similarly geared Rogue or Monk and you'll quickly notice that Paladin is a tank and not ever to be confused with or described as a DPS class. Compare apples to apples (tanks to tanks) and you'll see that equivalently geared Warrior or SK outdamages the Paladin (not by much, but when you tout the damage output of a Paladin you're asking to be shown the light.) Sure, compared to indifferently geared EC twinks an epic'd & planar geared Paladin looks good, just as any other class looks good when they're geared far better than those they're compared to.

The Paladin's a knight tank, enough HP/AC to make Complete Heal powerful and to not be insta-gibbed except by the most outrageous raid bosses (the one bone the EQ devs tossed Warriors) plus excellent agro ability, with a bit of utility on the side. Why are we talking about Paladin DPS, except to laugh and point out that only the Cleric does less?

At least the Paladin isn't rock bottom.

Also, a lot of people claim that Paladins are horrible at soloing, but I think they can be quite good at it if they just make use of what they have. Root can give you a chance to back off and heal/med before continuing the fight, so a Paladin can do well in 1v1 combat if (s)he is smart about it. And Root can be used to deal with adds.

I was able to solo a Paladin from 30 to 42 in Unrest quite easily back in Luclin, making use of my undead spells, Ghoulbane, and rooting to heal/med when needed.

[kaev]

Originally Posted by Loadsamoney [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

At least the Paladin isn't rock bottom.

Also, a lot of people claim that Paladins are horrible at soloing, but I think they can be quite good at it if they just make use of what they have. Root can give you a chance to back off and heal/med before continuing the fight, so a Paladin can do well in 1v1 combat if (s)he is smart about it. And Root can be used to deal with adds.

I was able to solo a Paladin from 30 to 42 in Unrest quite easily back in Luclin, making use of my undead spells, Ghoulbane, and rooting to heal/med when needed.

Paladin can solo kinda-sorka-ok-ish until L45 or so. It gets pretty terribad post-50. Mobs have too many hp and your primary strength is taking hits not dishing them out. Those slow-casting little anti-undead nukes don't count for much against mobs with real hp. Even with DS pots, epic, and a good haste item it sucks. Your Paladin won't get xp much faster soloing than he will if you log to your EC mule and go afk (sadly, that's not a joke.)

You can get duo xp that's far better than solo, but still not as good as a decent 5 or 6 man group, with most anybody except another Paladin or a Cleric. Even a Warrior (use root to manage agro and keep the Warrior berzerk, suck down DS pots like an addict) or an SK (fear-kite to minimize damage taken and thus downtime.)

Befriend Enchanters. A group built around Paladin+Enchanter can do great things in a dungeon.

[Loadsamoney]

Originally Posted by kaev [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Paladin can solo kinda-sorka-ok-ish until L45 or so. It gets pretty terribad post-50. Mobs have too many hp and your primary strength is taking hits not dishing them out. Those slow-casting little anti-undead nukes don't count for much against mobs with real hp. Even with DS pots, epic, and a good haste item it sucks. Your Paladin won't get xp much faster soloing than he will if you log to your EC mule and go afk (sadly, that's not a joke.)

You can get duo xp that's far better than solo, but still not as good as a decent 5 or 6 man group, with most anybody except another Paladin or a Cleric. Even a Warrior (use root to manage agro and keep the Warrior berzerk, suck down DS pots like an addict) or an SK (fear-kite to minimize damage taken and thus downtime.)

Befriend Enchanters. A group built around Paladin+Enchanter can do great things in a dungeon.

Most people don't solo past 50 anyway, some can but they prefer not to because of inefficiency. Mobs get too much HP at that point to make killing them solo efficient unless you're a class with strong dots or have the patience to kite.

Give a Paladin Ghoulbane and send him to Lguk or Unrest at 30 and he can probably solo his way to 49.

[Phased]

Originally Posted by Loadsamoney [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Give a Paladin Ghoulbane and send him to Lguk or Unrest at 30 and he can probably solo his way to 49.

Oh stop it. This would be painfully slow. Any class can solo, it doesn't mean they should. Solo and paladin don't really belong in the same sentence unless it involves Deepwater Helm.

Also paladin healing, regardless of what spells they get is bad simply because mana pool is ridiculously low.

[Loadsamoney]

Originally Posted by Phased [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Oh stop it. This would be painfully slow. Any class can solo, it doesn't mean they should. Solo and paladin don't really belong in the same sentence unless it involves Deepwater Helm.

Also paladin healing, regardless of what spells they get is bad simply because mana pool is ridiculously low.

I agree, some classes shouldn't solo. But they still can IF they want to. To me, being able to solo isn't about how fast you can kill stuff, it's whether or not you can survive a 1v1 battle at all. If you can, then you can solo, however wasteful it may be.

And yeah, they do have a crappy mana pool, but in times of need when your healer is either dead or OOM, a Paladin can still pick up the heals temporarily. A Ranger only gets Greater Heal which is pretty useless by the 50s, but a Pallys Superior Heal is strong enough to save lives still. A Pally should generally have full mana as the group tank if (s)he is playing correctly, since FoL is so cheap, and in hairy situations, a Pally with a full mana bar can save lives. I've done it, and I've been praised for doing it.

[Chrysus]

Originally Posted by Phased [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Deepwater/Blood Ember is closer in AC to Tolan's than it is to Cobalt and aside from the helm the effects pale in comparison to others. While the epic is amazing in exp groups, it's a death wish at raids and if your DA is down. The disciplines in Velious were a little bone. Healing Wave of Prexus is okay but unless you're decked out in NTOV gear you won't get many casts off.

But with a Palladius' Axe of the Slaughter, being a paladin becomes fun.

Luclin spell. The 55 group heal Paladins get in Velious is less effecient then a cleric group heal, heals for less and comes with a long recast. Same deal with the HoT paladins get in Velious.

[Loadsamoney]

Originally Posted by Chrysus [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Luclin spell. The 55 group heal Paladins get in Velious is less effecient then a cleric group heal, heals for less and comes with a long recast. Same deal with the HoT paladins get in Velious.

Paladins Get Superior Heal at 57. At almost 600HP, that's plenty strong enough for them, even enough to make them a capable secondary healer.