VP closed to Class R guilds?

[Raev]

Originally Posted by mattkwi [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

and sitting in cash/item camps for hours for items.

Nah, you are probably just assuming everyone AFK camps stuff like TMO. I was in a full group camping the spore king on his spawn point last weekend and it was really fun - constant action. HS South is also great fun in a mid size group. You cannot seriously be comparing that to coh ducking or jav spamming or even just sitting there at the VP pad.

Originally Posted by Sirken

not everyone may agree with this, but this is the position of the staff.

So you have created a bunch of artificial, non-classic timesinks, and the people who are willing to jump through those hoops are better players? I mean if variance was classic I would agree with you 100%, but it isn't. I really wish the staff would focus on making competition fun instead of making sure Class C gets sufficient pixels. There are so many things to try (huge variance but mobs shout to the zone/server when they spawn, minirepops, more repops with half the loot table on each mob, whatever). None of those are any less classic than what we have here.

Also, IIRC the new raid agreement included 3 repops per month or more? We have only been getting like 2. Thats a fairly substantial difference and everyone agrees the repops are the best part of raiding currently.

[mattkwi]

Originally Posted by Raev [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Nah, you are probably just assuming everyone AFK camps stuff like TMO. I was in a full group camping the spore king on his spawn point last weekend and it was really fun - constant action. HS South is also great fun in a mid size group. You cannot seriously be comparing that to coh ducking or jav spamming or even just sitting there at the VP pad.



So you have created a bunch of artificial, non-classic timesinks, and the people who are willing to jump through those hoops are better players? I mean if variance was classic I would agree with you 100%, but it isn't. I really wish the staff would focus on making competition fun instead of making sure Class C gets sufficient pixels. There are so many things to try (huge variance but mobs shout to the zone/server when they spawn, minirepops, more repops with half the loot table on each mob, whatever). None of those are any less classic than what we have here.

Also, IIRC the new raid agreement included 3 repops per month or more? We have only been getting like 2. Thats a fairly substantial difference and everyone agrees the repops are the best part of raiding currently.

Except class C has never COTh ducked unless in response to a class r guild first, class c doesn't jav spam either. And yes I would say sitting at ps killing a ph every 6.5 mins is just as boring as sitting their doing nothing. And when that dragon spawns you bet that race is a fun adrenaline Rush.

I wasnt comparing every single camp. Just pointing out people already will camp for pixels till their brain goes numb regardless of class.

[Fanguru]

Originally Posted by Sirken [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This system was created and implemented with the expectation that most of the FFA mobs would go to Class C. The idea was never to "take away" from Class C so much as it was to try and allow more non Class C players to experience raid content, as well as a stepping stone to join Class C when ready. Thus making Class C more tempting to newer, up and coming guilds, as Class C will still have a larger piece of the pixel pie, will not suffer from lockouts, will have exclusive rights to VP and the best loots in Kunark era, and is given more room by staff to work out their own disputes (as it is the non restricted class).

not everyone may agree with this, but this is the position of the staff.

This position implies Class C is better than Class R.
Class C and R are a different mindset:
in R, we do not want to

* spend each weekend taking shifts and being on call for 48 hours
* have an arms race with trains and guildmages to see who can FTE first
* play lawyerquest

We are very greatful for this opportunity to experience EQ again on this free server, but at this point, everyone would be much happier with a competitive server and a rotation server.

You are trying to force a playstyle on people with a life outside EQ, and any attempt by class R to level up the playing field and compete on a very select and very few mobs is met with complaints.

As a GM, you are championning class C playstyle, which is a small part of the server.
Do you have actual numbers on active class C numbers vs class R? I understand server staff has a vision, but shouldn't this vision also reflect your global playerbase wishes?

[Hitpoint]

Originally Posted by Fanguru [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This position implies Class C is better than Class R.
Class C and R are a different mindset:
in R, we do not want to

* spend each weekend taking shifts and being on call for 48 hours
* have an arms race with trains and guildmages to see who can FTE first
* play lawyerquest

We are very greatful for this opportunity to experience EQ again on this free server, but at this point, everyone would be much happier with a competitive server and a rotation server.

You are trying to force a playstyle on people with a life outside EQ, and any attempt by class R to level up the playing field and compete on a very select and very few mobs is met with complaints.

As a GM, you are championning class C playstyle, which is a small part of the server.
Do you have actual numbers on active class C numbers vs class R? I understand server staff has a vision, but shouldn't this vision also reflect your global playerbase wishes?

I got news for you. Class C doesn't want to do that shit either. They do it because they have to if they want to kill mobs and be in a top guild. That's why they are rewarded, and that's why class C is better. They've just earned more. I think all of this goes without saying though. Anyone posting otherwise is being deliberately dense.

[Skew]

Theres 2 ways to kill VP mobs.
1)Have your guild move to class C.
2) apply to a class C guild.

TMO are currently seeming motivated players who want to raid.
Especially enchanters <3

There is nothing stopping anyone experiencing end game Kunark.

[Fanguru]

This is hardly news. Agreeing to a horrible playstyle with a narrow-minded, pixel-obsessed attitude is not earning more.

Yet again, this shows the difference in mindsets: class C agrees to see EQ as a weekend of chores, while class R tries to play in a relaxed, cooperative environment promoting healthy competition with FFA on repops.

[Hitpoint]

Originally Posted by Fanguru [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This is hardly news. Agreeing to a horrible playstyle with a narrow-minded, pixel-obsessed attitude is not earning more.

You're right, that isn't earning more.

However, this is:

Originally Posted by Fanguru [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

* spend each weekend taking shifts and being on call for 48 hours
* have an arms race with trains and guildmages to see who can FTE first
* play lawyerquest

[heartbrand]

Holocaust recruiting on Red99, VP and all mobs on lockdown, as will be Velious. Come experience raid content without being cock blocked by a rule book longer than the Affordable Health Care Act.

[Daldaen]

Unless you make rules black and white, they are nothing more than polite suggestions on this server. And polite suggestions don't do anything in this raid scene. I wish they did but they don't.

Going back to 96-hour variance would do nothing but reward the very people who perpetrate the majority (bolded for emphasis that they are not the sole perpetrators) of this behavior, by removing any remote possibility that casual guilds will compete and contemplate jumping up to Class C. None of them presently have the desire to track multiple targets for 16 hours. Going up to 96 will just make it a hell no.

Sirken, if your goal is competition with no poopsocking you have some realistic options:

1. You make rules about poopsocking. Currently those are limited to you cannot bind or camp on spawns, cannot have people in planar zones clearing when mob spawns, cannot have people "near" spawn other than 2 trackers in all other zones.

These rules must remove the grey area of "near" and "poopsock". With clearly defined language. Something like: you may not have more than 4 people present in zone when it spawns. Otherwise you are DQ'd. If you have more than 4, and get FTE and kill that mob, you are raid suspended for 2 week.

It needs to be real punishment that deters people from doing it. In the words of Louis CK "The reason murder isn't common is because it REALLY sucks getting caught murdering". Make it REALLY suck violating poopsock rules.

With new, and black and white rules, reduce variance. You will begin to see casual guilds appearing for FFA mobs if variance is reduced down a lot. 4 hours you may see one or two guilds. 60-30 min you may see 2 Class C and 3-4 Class R guilds competing for mobs.

2. You remove the ability of people to poopsock by changing the spawning mechanic (Respawns that are unannounced, have 6~ a month, and try to make it proportional to player activity. 3 during prime time US, 1 during late night US time, 1 during euro prime time, 1 during early morning/asian time roughly)

#2 clearly removes the necessity for most rules and will reduce the number of petitions from raids. I don't see why this isn't a favorable options from the GMs standpoint, especially if respawns are something you can automate. Currently I thought it was a manual trigger Rogean had to pull but I dunno if that's still the case.

[Erati]

They would prefer the players 'behave' rather than have them be told black and white guidelines what to do

It makes EQ a little more EQ having some free will, but at this point, with Velious still not out....some more heavy handed direction may be in order especially if the Devs/Staff are interested in opening up the FFA raid scene into a more competitive and less inclusive atmosphere for all

It does seem odd that the pixel count for Class C is the top priority for any change implemented, its an emulated server who cares if they miss out on 10% of potential pixel intake, especially when 'the best' pixels remain intact