Catherins attempt at lawyering

[Derubael]

Originally Posted by arsenalpow [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

. Derubael and I don’t really get along lol…

naw we get along just fine, whatchu talkin about?

I was not serious when I made this post:

Originally Posted by Derubael

nvm chest, sanity just went out the window, don't bother. not worth saving at this point.

But since you really, really want to see me totally lose it this morning, I'll simply point out three things:

1) Nothing in your post disproves anything I said. Unbrella's petition was literally ignored for a ridiculous amount of time, at which point it was finally addressed in a Skype call with Myself, Sirken, and Unbrella, where a mediation was requested. i don't know if Sirken was even fully aware of what he was telling you not to worry about during your conversation together - and yes, I can see why having this brought back up months later may have frustrated you - but the fact remains that you had both GM's agreeing to mediate for the TMO dispute against BDA

2) We have few viable options when "forced" to discipline Class R guilds when a dispute cannot be mediated by players, due to the way Class R rotates mobs. If we tak away, say, the next FFA Nagafen.... there's no real punishment there - we have no idea if you would have even gone after that target to begin with. So we are more or less forced to take away a rotation mob if it becomes necessary to address a situation that way. To be perfectly honest I am very thankful that you guys in Class-R rarely have conflicts like this that need to be escalated to that level, as they seem to be more difficult to find a fair and appropriate punishment for a violation.

To close this out, your last statement, while perfectly legitimate from your point of view, lacks the full picture required to truly make that judgement. Any bias that you may have thought was present is a combination of growing pains from the raid scene transition combined with biased perception of events - don't take that to be an insult, almost everyone carries some kind of bias, especially without having access to any of the Class C disputes - where mobs are forfeited all the time to compensate for infractions. I think that over time it will become clear we are really striving for fairness and cooperation as often as is possible in today's raid scene.

Now lets stop trying to make my head explode, ty!

[arsenalpow]

Originally Posted by Derubael [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

naw we get along just fine, whatchu talkin about?

I was not serious when I made this post:



But since you really, really want to see me totally lose it this morning, I'll simply point out three things:

1) Nothing in your post disproves anything I said. Unbrella's petition was literally ignored for a ridiculous amount of time, at which point it was finally addressed in a Skype call with Myself, Sirken, and Unbrella, where a mediation was requested. i don't know if Sirken was even fully aware of what he was telling you not to worry about during your conversation together - and yes, I can see why having this brought back up months later may have frustrated you - but the fact remains that you had both GM's agreeing to mediate for the TMO dispute against BDA

2) We have few viable options when "forced" to discipline Class R guilds when a dispute cannot be mediated by players, due to the way Class R rotates mobs. If we tak away, say, the next FFA Nagafen.... there's no real punishment there - we have no idea if you would have even gone after that target to begin with. So we are more or less forced to take away a rotation mob if it becomes necessary to address a situation that way. To be perfectly honest I am very thankful that you guys in Class-R rarely have conflicts like this that need to be escalated to that level, as they seem to be more difficult to find a fair and appropriate punishment for a violation.

To close this out, your last statement, while perfectly legitimate from your point of view, lacks the full picture required to truly make that judgement. Any bias that you may have thought was present is a combination of growing pains from the raid scene transition combined with biased perception of events - don't take that to be an insult, almost everyone carries some kind of bias, especially without having access to any of the Class C disputes - where mobs are forfeited all the time to compensate for infractions. I think that over time it will become clear we are really striving for fairness and cooperation as often as is possible in today's raid scene.

Now lets stop trying to make my head explode, ty!

I don't disagree that I'm biased towards my own position, it's a predisposition and I'd say it's a relatively rational thought process, but re-read our PM conversation. It was tantamount to saying "do what I say or else" instead of going back and conferring with Sirken and admitting "yes chest, Sirken said this was a resolved issued but now due to new staff regulations we are re-opening the case and requesting you to send a rep.

That thought differs greatly from "I have no idea what this is about, I don't know/care what Sirken has told you, show up or it's a summary judgement against you and/or I'll just ban your accounts #DunkPic"

TMO and IB can just swap mobs indefinitely where the class R guilds are painted into a corner because we've created a rotation. We aren't going to break the rotation to avoid punishment because we aren't assholes but it's almost like that's what you want, to sow a bit of chaos.

[Derubael]

Originally Posted by arsenalpow [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I don't disagree that I'm biased towards my own position, it's a predisposition and I'd say it's a relatively rational thought process, but re-read our PM conversation. It was tantamount to saying "do what I say or else" instead of going back and conferring with Sirken and admitting "yes chest, Sirken said this was a resolved issued but now due to new staff regulations we are re-opening the case and requesting you to send a rep.

That thought differs greatly from "I have no idea what this is about, I don't know/care what Sirken has told you, show up or it's a summary judgement against you and/or I'll just ban your accounts #DunkPic"

I was talking to Sirken while messaging you and that was never mentioned. He was more put off by the attitude that was coming my way than anything else. It's not uncommon for us to forget things we've talked about with players in the past, which may have been the case here.

TMO and IB can just swap mobs indefinitely where the class R guilds are painted into a corner because we've created a rotation. We aren't going to break the rotation to avoid punishment because we aren't assholes but it's almost like that's what you want, to sow a bit of chaos.

To be honest I don't think this is as much of a problem as you are making it out to be - Class R guilds engaging targets with CLass C guilds tend to be very cautious and very rarely will break a rule that requires GM intervention during an FFA encounter. The option for these two guilds to mediate their own dispute is always on the table as well. At this point, after expressing our frustration as nicely as possible all across the forums, I am shocked that anyone would truly believe we like chaos or drama. That kind of shit drives us crazy and takes us away from the real work we need to be doing for the server. If everyone worked at cooperating as hard as they did collecting pixels, we may be able to finally create a raid scene everyone truly enjoys.

and rainbows and unicorns and shit [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[Visual]

Originally Posted by arsenalpow [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

We aren't going to break the rotation to avoid punishment because we aren't assholes but it's almost like that's what you want, to sow a bit of chaos.

You speak like you have some kind of bargaining leverage over the staff. They don't owe you anything. You should be getting nothing, zilch, nada. They have been overly generous.

[knix]

Originally Posted by arsenalpow [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

TMO and IB can just swap mobs indefinitely where the class R guilds are painted into a corner because we've created a rotation. We aren't going to break the rotation to avoid punishment because we aren't assholes but it's almost like that's what you want, to sow a bit of chaos.

Rarely if EVER does TMO or IB do anything to each other to intentionally cause a raid infraction, but with pathing, and attempts going for FTE at the same time, shit happens. Also we all have newer players that newb it up and accidentally train the other team. And when that happens, we step up. (remember the FFA VS we accidentally trained trackers?, not only did we give up that attempt at VS (that BDA took down) , but we got the next VS and the loots to the guild we harmed.)

I mean we look at some fraps and say, what were they thinking, but some fraps/screenshots look like Catherine's attempt to disparage us at Sev. I am sure IB feels the same way.

IF BDA wouldn't have jumped in and helped Taken on that naggy, OR Responded to our officer at the time, when we pointed out via tells and OOC that what they were doing Right now was in violation of the rules, you wouldn't have to pretend to take the high road "not going to break class R rotation".

If BDA didn't jump in to help Taken on that naggy to screw TMO who was there waiting, why did they (BDA) join in Taken's fight.

[arsenalpow]

Yes Knix, all TMO and IB raid violations are akin to breaking eggs to make an omelette, it just happens you see because of how elite your strategies are and how difficult VP is as a zone to master. But anytime BDA or Taken or any other non class C guild does something infraction worthy it's a calculated scheme to deny the loot deprived members of TMO. You're fucking delusional.

[Frieza_Prexus]

People don't work together because there's never an allowance for good faith mistakes. Mistakes between C and R can never simply get a foul and send the other guy to the free throw line. It's always got to be a technical foul with a 5 game suspension and $250,000 fine.

The community outcry for 2 week suspensions (a punishment with no basis in rule or fact) in the Raid Discussion thread is a perfect example.

[Locust]

Originally Posted by Frieza_Prexus [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

People don't work together because there's never an allowance for good faith mistakes. Mistakes between C and R can never simply get a foul and send the other guy to the free throw line. It's always got to be a technical foul with a 5 game suspension and $250,000 fine.

The community outcry for 2 week suspensions (a punishment with no basis in rule or fact) in the Raid Discussion thread is a perfect example.

Taken wants TMO to be 2 week suspended for standing on Sev's spawn point during window

wait

the same guild who recently kill stole a Sev

the same guild who united every other guild on the server against them in a public outcry

the same guild who perpetuates coth ducking?

who poop socks and employs ultra competitive raid tactics?

WHO REMAINS CLASS R?

wants TMO to be suspended?

what a joke

[TMBLOW]

Originally Posted by Locust [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

who poop socks and employs ultra competitive raid tactics?

WHO REMAINS CLASS R?

The horror of another guild showing up

the HORROR

TMO in game- "Can you guys not try hard pls?"

TMO on forums - " LOL try HARDER"

[knix]

Originally Posted by arsenalpow [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Yes Knix, all TMO and IB raid violations are akin to breaking eggs to make an omelette, it just happens you see because of how elite your strategies are and how difficult VP is as a zone to master. But anytime BDA or Taken or any other non class C guild does something infraction worthy it's a calculated scheme to deny the loot deprived members of TMO. You're fucking delusional.

spin, and didn't answer question.

Why did BDA ignore server raid rules, and kill Naggy for Taken, on their failing attempt?