Real Question here

[Erati]

C/R with FFA repops is a good start

I think bag limit would have to still b e maintained however, and I would like to see the repop not ding you for going for a VP dragon

If repops were 'classless' you would see much healthier competition from every guild because then suddenly Class R guilds could attempt to slip a VP dragon past Class C here n there.

if anything, mobs being qualified as 'Class C' after a repop occurs should never, ever ever promote your guild to Class C. That encounter completely does not represent any kind of 'bridging the gap' or 'graduating' to the other class. If Class C is the 'competative' class then surely they would not mind extra competition for their repopped mobs

Having Class C mobs wait around for them to finish up in VP or higher priority targets is really dumb

[arsenalpow]

Bag limit has to stay for mobs outside of VP, that's one part of the agreement that I think has functioned well.

[toolshed]

so basically class C guilds don't want to work on Velious content on beta (even though they have the most to gain because it's a raiding expansion) because they don't want to give up sole ownership of the highest raiding dungeon in kunark (VP)

[sanforce]

I would be OK with VP being FFA on repops, but I doubt anyone in Class C would be willing to allow VP mobs to go on rotation. VP mobs are considered the best in the game, they should always have some competition surrounding them. However, if VP repops were FFA, a class R guild would have a pretty good shot at downing something while IB/TMO were concentrating on dragons with better loot.

I also don't really want to see C/C/R, removing FFA removes the incentive for other guilds to develop their Class C tactics, before jumping completely in (again, this is the intended goal of C/FFA/R).

Also, the proposed rules don't get at the core issue, which is a resurgence in socking. The server used to mitigate this through increased variance and extended windows. 16 hour windows are short enough to encourage this terrible practice.

Would class R guild be opposed to shorter windows but larger variance? You would still only have to log a tracker in occasionally, and it would reduce the multi group FTE races that we currently experience on Class C and FFA mobs.

[arsenalpow]

Originally Posted by toolshed [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

so basically class C guilds don't want to work on Velious content on beta (even though they have the most to gain because it's a raiding expansion) because they don't want to give up sole ownership of the highest raiding dungeon in kunark (VP)

I don't think that's a fair assessment. Lots of guilds have been testing including class C guilds.

[sanforce]

Originally Posted by toolshed [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

so basically class C guilds don't want to work on Velious content on beta (even though they have the most to gain because it's a raiding expansion) because they don't want to give up sole ownership of the highest raiding dungeon in kunark (VP)

Class C guilds do raid Velious Beta, for our own experience and to help speed up the development.

[arsenalpow]

Originally Posted by sanforce [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I would be OK with VP being FFA on repops, but I doubt anyone in Class C would be willing to allow VP mobs go to a rotation. VP mobs are considered the best in the game, they should always have some competition surrounding them. However, if VP repops were FFA, a class R guild would have a pretty good shot at downing something while IB/TMO were concentrating on dragons with better loot.

I also don't really want to see C/C/R, removing FFA removes this incentive for other guilds to develop their Class C tactics, before jumping completely in (again, this is the intended goal of C/FFA/R).

Also, the proposed rules don't get at the core issue, which is a resurgence in socking. The server used to mitigate this through increased variance and extended windows. 16 hour windows are short enough to encourage this terrible practice.

Would class R guild be opposed to shorter windows but larger variance? You would still only have to log a tracker in occasionally, and it would reduce the multi group FTE races that we currently experience on Class C and FFA mobs.

Leave the windows alone, they're fine as is. Again, make all FFA mobs for the week spawn simultaneously and you'll see less socking because it will be easier to spread out.

[mgellan]

C/R with classless FFA repops with a bag limit (including inclusion of VP and Velious mobs in the mix) sounds good to me although I wouldn't mind if Class R rotation is not impacted by repops (i.e. no obligation to take your Class R mob rotation first on repop) since now they're being competed...

Regards,
Mg

[Raev]

Originally Posted by Ella`Ella [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Class C, whether it be TMO or IB expects some degree of tracking and attendance, but it's really not that overbearing to anyone's schedule.

It's not the amount of time, its the way that time is spent.

Originally Posted by Daldaen

C/C/R rotation is fine just include VP in it.

Repops go full FFA

Sounds quite reasonable to me; I have no idea why Chest doesn't like it. To me the important part is Class R being considered full members of the server and getting to see 100% of the content.

I would also add: why not have 96 hour variance or whatever Class C can agree to, and 0 hour variance for Class R? I suppose this only works if the GMs agree to make the R rotation official.

Of course I very much doubt the class C guilds would agree to this; if Chest was seen in EC wearing a crown of rile TMO might have a collective aneurysm on the spot.

Originally Posted by Erati

I do feel though at the same time it is impossible to start Velious mobs with a R/C rotation on them because no one has experienced P99 Velious yet so how can you qualify which mobs belong in the system or not til we have all experience what they are like on our box

100% agree, but after a few months of epeen/neckbeard explostion the R/C system should be extended. Again, I see these as different playstyles.

[mgellan]

Originally Posted by sanforce [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Also, the proposed rules don't get at the core issue, which is a resurgence in socking. The server used to mitigate this through increased variance and extended windows. 16 hour windows are short enough to encourage this terrible practice.

Would class R guild be opposed to shorter windows but larger variance? You would still only have to log a tracker in occasionally, and it would reduce the multi group FTE races that we currently experience on Class C and FFA mobs.

Would the larger number of available mobs in Velious not reduce the propensity towards socking anyways? We all have limited resources... longer variance would be a pain, even now it's a colossal pain when mobs wait til the last 10 mins of their window to make an appearance...

Regards,
Mg