Does God / a supreme being exist?

[Bojangles]

I am amazed at how many of you just don't get it. There is evidence. It is indisputable that evidence exists. The veracity of the evidence is what can be disputed.

"There is no evidence" is an objective statement which can be easily disproven.

"There is no evidence that I find credible" is a subjective statement.

Originally Posted by isitatomic [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

A boss in Heaven is the best excuse for a boss on earth.

If God really existed, it would be necessary to abolish him.

As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.



(Bakunin was an international terrorist and a miserable political theorist, but when you're right you're right)

Wow, way to denigrate your own source.

Originally Posted by Villide [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Perhaps I am brainwashed, but that does not preclude the possibility that you are as well.

Is it possible to be brainwashed to be a lapsed Catholic agnostic who can't quite bring himself to give a shit about his own beliefs, much less others' beliefs? I think my (lack of) beliefs is a pretty good sign that I am not brainwashed. My problem with the atheists is that it ticks off my OCD need for accuracy and logic. Stating that there is no evidence for the existence of God when there obviously is evidence makes me start to twitch. Debate the accuracy of that evidence all you want.

Originally Posted by Villide [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Difference is, I was brainwashed into the cult of religion at an early age. When I grew up, I required a bit of evidence to continue believing in some invisible, all-powerful being. That evidence just doesn't exist. Until it does, I'll continue to see it the way I see it.

I know, I know...this is the part of the program where we discuss "faith". So I'll just concede the victory to you on this argument, because there's no way I can win that one.

Now you seem to be saying that you do not believe 1 way or the other. In which case my twitching at logical inaccuracy will subside.

[Kassel]

I am amazed at how many of you just don't get it. There is evidence. It is indisputable that evidence exists.

do tell

[Slade_the_Slide]

Originally Posted by Kassel [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

do tell

Please show us! I mean if you have evidence that would convince any/everyone why not share it with the world? Every news station would love to broadcast such evidence. Take it to Richard Dawkins and all others. You alone could hold the key to showing the whole world god does exist! What are you waiting for!?!?!?!?!?!??!?!?!?!?!?!?![You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.][You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.][You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.][You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[Bojangles]

Originally Posted by Slade_the_Slide [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Please show us! I mean if you have evidence that would convince any/everyone why not share it with the world? Every news station would love to broadcast such evidence. Take it to Richard Dawkins and all others. You alone could hold the key to showing the whole world god does exist! What are you waiting for!?!?!?!?!?!??!?!?!?!?!?!?![You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.][You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.][You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.][You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Please show me where I claim I can prove the existence of God. All I am doing is stating the 100% factual statement that there is evidence of the existence of God, namely the eye witness accounts that have been passed down to us. As I have said again and again, this doesn't necessarily prove the existence of God, it merely shows that those who say "there is 0 evidence" are incorrect. Whether you choose to believe that evidence is convincing or not has nothing to do with my argument.

Originally Posted by Slade_the_Slide [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Using the Bible as evidence of God is circular. God must be realz coz the bible done says so! The bibles is right because God wrote it!!!!

And using Job of all books...wow. What better way to show God's a humongous raging asshole than the book of Job. If God does exist, I hope it's not that douchebag.

It is not circular, the argument is contained within itself. People saw God, or what they thought was God, and passed along stories. Those stories were collected in an anthology. If you believe the stories, then of course you believe in God. If you believe in God, then of course you believe the stories because that is where the belief came from. Neither belief leads to the other belief, they exist simultaneously.

The Christian concept of God is far beyond the comprehension of humans. He isn't an ass, he is unknowable.

[nukem419]

Here's the two main issues I have with the whole god thing.

Morality: Religions tend to treat this whole issue by using axioms delivered to us either directly by god or indirectly though a prophet. If you ask a follower of a given faith why can't you break such and such rule they will respond with a simple "because god said so". I believe this is wrong, god in a moral context is not automatically granted special immunity because he has super powers. It's a two way street and he has to play by his own rules. With that in mind morality takes on a more philosophical role and must operate inside an alternate mode such as a social contract even in the presence of a god. I believe Buddha once said that even the gods are bound by karma.

Genuine good and evil requires free will. Humans exist inside of a dynamic and through a never ending cycle of cause and effect this dynamic defines who we are from one second to the next. It is through this process that we are able to make choices. in it's simplist form there are only 4 objects of concern in this dynamic. An input, a state, an output, and rules. if any three are know the forth can be determined.
Because of this device it is possible to predict with absolute certainty the future choices of a person if all other variables are taken into account. However, if all of our future actions are deterministic in nature how can we have a free will?


With that in mind it doesn't really matter if god exists or not, it doesn't change anything for us down here.

[Slade_the_Slide]

Originally Posted by Bojangles [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It is not circular, the argument is contained within itself. People saw God, or what they thought was God, and passed along stories. Those stories were collected in an anthology. If you believe the stories, then of course you believe in God. If you believe in God, then of course you believe the stories because that is where the belief came from. Neither belief leads to the other belief, they exist simultaneously.

The Christian concept of God is far beyond the comprehension of humans. He isn't an ass, he is unknowable.

"He's unknowable" "He's beyond your comprehension"

Meaning, I should not be punished for not believing in such a being. I think that's the biggest cop-out argument ever. When cornered with any argument you resort to "Well, it's just beyond your understanding"

Please tell me how you know this? Don't use the Bible yet again as evidence. That's as much evidence as toilet paper.