President Obama is calling me a dyke?

[Glenzig]

Originally Posted by Ahldagor [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

lincoln, jefferson, madison, both roosevelts, wilson, kennedy, and andrew jackson were pretty dang good for their times.

No they weren't. We're just far enough removed from their presidencies that we are no longer privy to all of the info. Its easy to glorify people when you can employ revisionists history.

[Ahldagor]

Originally Posted by Glenzig [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

No they weren't. We're just far enough removed from their presidencies that we are no longer privy to all of the info. Its easy to glorify people when you can employ revisionists history.

hence "for their times". not to mention revisionist history adheres to current conservative politics in order to create different views of heroism. politics is a dirty game, but don't go bashing with that "we can't really know history" bullshit-amateur-nihilist argument.

[Glenzig]

Originally Posted by Ahldagor [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

hence "for their times". not to mention revisionist history adheres to current conservative politics in order to create different views of heroism. politics is a dirty game, but don't go bashing with that "we can't really know history" bullshit-amateur-nihilist argument.

Well the same argument could be made that they were truly evil "for their times" also. All I'm saying is that what you're taught in a history class about how great a lot of these guys were is just a cherry picking of historical facts at best. At worst its completely dishonest about what actually happened or omits any info that would shine a bad light on them. So no its not that "we can't really know history", its that you can't really trust history books. History is written by the victors after all.

[radditsu]

Originally Posted by Glenzig [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Well the same argument could be made that they were truly evil "for their times" also. All I'm saying is that what you're taught in a history class about how great a lot of these guys were is just a cherry picking of historical facts at best. At worst its completely dishonest about what actually happened or omits any info that would shine a bad light on them. So no its not that "we can't really know history", its that you can't really trust history books. History is written by the victors after all.

Oh I agree but most post high school educated people are taught these things in college. Those stories are told because they make a good narritave that people remember. As people age and develop, if you continue to better yourself, you learn the non narratively pleasing facets of history. Such as indian cities bigger and cleaner than london. The US being agriculturally developed while we were sleeping with our shit covered pigs. It ties in with all that ancient alien bullshit. Most of our society cant get past that. But the ultimate effects of these presidents are still felt today

[stonez138]

Originally Posted by Glenzig [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

No they weren't. We're just far enough removed from their presidencies that we are no longer privy to all of the info. Its easy to glorify people when you can employ revisionists history.

Almost as easy as it is to dismiss their acomplishments with out one iota of fact or reasoning.

[Glenzig]

Originally Posted by stonez138 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Almost as easy as it is to dismiss their acomplishments with out one iota of fact or reasoning.

You're right. Who were these guys?? Aren't some of them on coins and dollars or something??? Man I should have done some research on what they actually stood for and did during their presidencies. What was I thinking? Can you teach me to read?