Pantheon kickstarter

[nndiro]

Originally Posted by stormlord [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

What I'm saying here is I'm not convinced PUNISHMENT is necessary to give a game challenge. It might be necessary to hook adrenaline junkies, but challenge is another beast. A challenge is like trying to get a good score - for yourself - in golf. Punishment is like having to restart ALL holes everytime you fail to get a hole-in-one. The key to take away is golf and other games are fun not because of any punishment (unless you're hooked on adrenaline) but because of the process of learning the game and getting better with time. Few humans if any would learn to walk if they had their legs cut off if they failed their first attempt.

so instead of punishment...rewards? like a bonus xp % for every level you don't die?

[stormlord]

Originally Posted by nndiro [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

so instead of punishment...rewards? like a bonus xp % for every level you don't die?

If you miss a putt in golf then your score isn't as good. If you're in a competition it can hurt because you may not get in the top 3 or whatever. If you're just playing alone or with a buddy, a lower score is just the loss of some bragging rights. If you're alone it's mostly just the time lost finding the missed balls.

Competitively, what we're talking about is a lower score. BUT this score should be more individual or be graded on a curve. My score should not be compared to Tiger Woods because I can't hit the ball straight, like ever. I'd have no fun if Tiger was my opponent. Competition is fun if it's reasonably fair.

If I'm playing alone then I'm limited by how many balls I have. If I miss I have to go get that ball. The more I'm actually swinging and playing the game the better I'm feeling. If I have to run too far to get my balls or if I lose too many then it starts to become too much hassle. Yes, I'm trying to get a good score, but missing doesn't affect me as much because I'm not playing competitively against someone else.

Soo.... WTF am I saying?

1 If I'm a competition and die then my (relative to my skill level) score is lower
2 If I'm not in a competition and die then it's just the time consumption itself which can hurt me

So punishment combined with competition can make a loss more painful.

Am I being punished if I have to run down a golf ball that missed or if I throw the ball out of bounds during a basketball game and the refs have to set up an inbound play to get the game going again? See, when we miss there's always the potential for some time consumption, but determining when that becomes punishment is just something you have to find out by asking the players and judging the majority vote.

I don't think there's a way to get rid of negative feelings when we lose or miss or fail or die or similar. The important thing is to not kick someone when they're down or to make it any worse. People who're having a string of losses actually need some encouragement if the start to not believe in themselves. So if you're going to help someone, target those people who're not doing well on a consistent basis.