Forgot about variance?

[Nizzarr]

Why would nihilum be online at all? Everybody is best in slot, everybody got 60s alt with full vp gear. We still raid EVERY DAY.

Kunark has been out for what? 1.5 years? Release velious and nihilum will be online all day.

you sure you want that?

[Kergan]

Originally Posted by HippoNipple [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It is better for RD and every other guild on the server besides the current Nihilum guild, that is a fact. The current system promotes the idea of zerging once a week for 3 hours instead of spreading out the end game throughout the week, for those that really enjoy the game, to experience.

The core of Nihilum would also benefit in the long run with variance but they are too scared fat by being fed easy pixels to endure the transition. Nihilum could get rid of the casuals they currently foster and become the hardcore elite guild they pretend to be now. It would gradually move people to guilds that fit their own play style instead of the system we have now. Before everyone knew it they would be having more fun when logging into the game, but the pixel lust and greed is so heavy on this server many cannot see past it.

There are no other guilds that could even take down dracolich on this server aside from RD and Nihilum.

And EQ is a game that 100% of your character progression is based on items. Pixel lust is inherently built into the game.

Velious will tell us who the hardcore people are. There is so much work to be done especially early on. If Nihilum wants to succeed it can't be like you describe, logging in a couple times a week to clear stuff in a few hours. If they aren't super active then another guild will take their place, plain and simple. No reason to make changes now. Non-variance will be a huge benefit to RD in Velious. It wouldn't take much to contest a Trakanon spawn and get it on the same spawn timer as a Tormax that will be much higher prioritized.

[Nizzarr]

Originally Posted by heartbrand [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I just typed like 10,000 words and they all got deleted FML, so I'll keep this as short as possible.

This is a server with 300 unique players MAX. It averages 110 or so primetime [don't quote me the inaccurate server select which is always significantly higher]. Because of this, the server can only sustain two guilds max. However, due to non variance, as soon as one guild has "won" the other guild basically turns into a feeder guild and dies. This leads to a landscape of almost no mass pvp other than the yearly "Guild B has finally overcome the 10,000 obstacles on Red99 to gearing and leveling and is now ready to try to compete for a week" mass pvp that results in the other side recruiting their members away and winning again. This will be how red99 continues forever basically. I had about 7-8 examples and proofs before Tunare nuked my post, but to be quite honest, you either know this already, or you're denying it, it really is self evident.

As far as who is this good for? Variance would create multiple guilds that would be smaller and leaner. You would see time zone guilds such as Euro Guilds that specialized in grabbing repops on their timer, American guilds, perhaps asian guilds although I don't think there's enough asian time players here. Variance would favor guilds that could mobilize the fastest. Right now, if you can't play on a Tuesday night, you are locked out of EverQuest. That's retarded, and was never how it was on live.

Nihilum will make strawman's about trackers and raidforces 24/7 @ juggs and all this shit. It's just propaganda. There would be no reason to join Nihilum with variance. You would see the emergence of dozens of crews, some of whom would work together etc. It would be epic and a lot of fun, and is basically how Live actually was. We had Euro guilds, an Asian guild on my server, and then two large American guilds. It was a blast. However, this would be inconvenient for those who want to kill everything on the server in three hours [incoming "but I raided plane of sky 6x this week for 30 hours" strawmen] and clock in and clock out.

Shrug, I'll keep on recruiting, keep on leveling, etc. And my hope is to over take Nihilum. But just know if we do, the result will be the same. Nihilum will die out, and then Red Dawn will be basically the only guild on the server, aka, the server would still be bleh. Of course, I would try harder to keep people engaged via leaving a few targets up, not actively trying to poach other guilds etc., but it would still be a far cry from what it could be.

P.S. reputation doesn't mean shit because the only way to win EQ pvp is with numbers, and on a server that 300 people play in the world, if you don't tag that person, you may have cost yourself the box.

Youre fucking high -- Variance means I'd be recruiting 50 other people just for tracking/batphone purposes.

Nobody would split up and join smaller guilds, the complete opposite will happen.

Fuck youve been in tmo, 150+ active members sup?

[Stasis01]

Originally Posted by Nizzarr [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Why would nihilum be online at all? Everybody is best in slot, everybody got 60s alt with full vp gear. We still raid EVERY DAY.

Kunark has been out for what? 1.5 years? Release velious and nihilum will be online all day.

you sure you want that?

No I expect you to, if you're taking 100% of raid content.

5 hrs a week is fucking silly.

[Stasis01]

Originally Posted by Nizzarr [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Youre fucking high -- Variance means I'd be recruiting 50 other people just for tracking/batphone purposes.

Nobody would split up and join smaller guilds, the complete opposite will happen.

Fuck youve been in tmo, 150+ active members sup?

You have open recruitment, how would you recruit 50 more people suddenly.

[Kergan]

Originally Posted by heartbrand [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I just typed like 10,000 words and they all got deleted FML, so I'll keep this as short as possible.

This is a server with 300 unique players MAX. It averages 110 or so primetime [don't quote me the inaccurate server select which is always significantly higher]. Because of this, the server can only sustain two guilds max. However, due to non variance, as soon as one guild has "won" the other guild basically turns into a feeder guild and dies. This leads to a landscape of almost no mass pvp other than the yearly "Guild B has finally overcome the 10,000 obstacles on Red99 to gearing and leveling and is now ready to try to compete for a week" mass pvp that results in the other side recruiting their members away and winning again. This will be how red99 continues forever basically. I had about 7-8 examples and proofs before Tunare nuked my post, but to be quite honest, you either know this already, or you're denying it, it really is self evident.

As far as who is this good for? Variance would create multiple guilds that would be smaller and leaner. You would see time zone guilds such as Euro Guilds that specialized in grabbing repops on their timer, American guilds, perhaps asian guilds although I don't think there's enough asian time players here. Variance would favor guilds that could mobilize the fastest. Right now, if you can't play on a Tuesday night, you are locked out of EverQuest. That's retarded, and was never how it was on live.

Nihilum will make strawman's about trackers and raidforces 24/7 @ juggs and all this shit. It's just propaganda. There would be no reason to join Nihilum with variance. You would see the emergence of dozens of crews, some of whom would work together etc. It would be epic and a lot of fun, and is basically how Live actually was. We had Euro guilds, an Asian guild on my server, and then two large American guilds. It was a blast. However, this would be inconvenient for those who want to kill everything on the server in three hours [incoming "but I raided plane of sky 6x this week for 30 hours" strawmen] and clock in and clock out.

Shrug, I'll keep on recruiting, keep on leveling, etc. And my hope is to over take Nihilum. But just know if we do, the result will be the same. Nihilum will die out, and then Red Dawn will be basically the only guild on the server, aka, the server would still be bleh. Of course, I would try harder to keep people engaged via leaving a few targets up, not actively trying to poach other guilds etc., but it would still be a far cry from what it could be.

P.S. reputation doesn't mean shit because the only way to win EQ pvp is with numbers, and on a server that 300 people play in the world, if you don't tag that person, you may have cost yourself the box.

There is actually a lot here I agree with. But in one sentence you say this server can only sustain two guilds, and in another you push variance saying it will create a bunch of guilds contesting...which is it?

Maybe Velious will give us 300+ on in prime time and we can have the conversation.

[HippoNipple]

Originally Posted by Kergan [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

So all the variance arguments are to help Nihilum? Please. And apart from gear and experience how is RD any different of a zerg? EQ was a game literally designed to be zerged. Encounters were tuned around having 40+ at raids. The raids that are duplicated in code on this server.



My 80% comment was more directed on what is being said not what is actually true. You can't have it both ways, calling Nihilum the zerg that has almost all of the 55+ population then in the next post say they barely log in except for a few hours to kill raid targets. Not saying this to you personally, but it is very easy to find posts on both sides, neither of which are 100% right or wrong. As in most cases reality sits somewhere in between the extremes.

EQ was never a game that promoted individuality. Quite the opposite in fact. One of the cornerstones it was built on was interdependence and large group content. And I never really understood the argument that 6-12 people working together should reap the same rewards as 40+. Regardless, Velious was the expansion that added the small raid content (we'll say 3 groups and under). I think that is a big reason why people absolutely loved it as an expansion and why the classic era ended when it's time passed. I've said it many times but lets wait and see how all of the new content effects things before we call for any changes. We all know it is close.



Again man, you can't have it both ways. Is Nihilum a group of hardcore no lifers? In which case variance would actually increase their stranglehold on the server based on this. Or are they casuals that have a ton of gear from farming the same expansion for 2 years uncontested that only log in for raid day. In which case all the posts calling for variance to defend all those casual players in RD is just a crock of shit? Again, not saying you're posting this stuff personally.

And what 3rd and 4th guild exactly? If you're basing the argument for variance on some fantasy that the population will double overnight and we'll all of a sudden have 4 guilds competing for raid content then you need to slow your roll. What we have now is what we're gonna get.



You mean changes like instituting a very manpower intensive ruleset change like a PNP? They didn't put in variance at this time because they don't think it will help the server, plain and simple. The code already exists on blue, and it was confirmed by staff the code is enabled on red just not turned on. There is no work required to enable variance, the choice was made after considering feedback in the very threads you reference.



The playerbase should always take it upon themselves to outcast the server scum. And all of the means to punish those in which you mention already exist on R99. Just because it isn't being done doesn't mean it can't be done.

Nihilum is a zerg of casual players led by a small force of hardcore players. The casuals would be left behind if variance was added in. Organizing 50 players to log into a game 3 hours a week hurts the population that is logging in every day to enjoy the game.

Red Dawn currently does content in zones where raid targets spawn and with variance they could take them while they are already there. Down the road other guilds that build up could do the same. Red Dawn isn't going to be doing the same content forever, they just started up.

A good crew of 20 dedicated players should be able to log in and snipe a raid target but as it stands now all raid targets are eaten up by a zerg of 30 casuals and 20 hardcore players every week.

If all the end game is reduced to this pathetic amount of time investment, killing bosses in seconds, why not flip a switch and change it to a system where this game can be enjoyed throughout the week? If they same group is still dominating the server then how is it any worse?

It is too tough to convince those with blinders on, receiving the benefit of all the end game with little to no time investment. You won't get those greedy players to want to horde all the pixels into one guild bank to root for a system that promotes server health, competition and enjoyment.

As you mentioned Velious will fix this as well and it is why most of the talk of variance has subsided. The devs already made it clear that they cannot do more than 1 thing, very slowly, at once.

[Kergan]

Originally Posted by Stasis01 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

No I expect you to, if you're taking 100% of raid content.

5 hrs a week is fucking silly.

You were in Nihilum. You know damn well they raid a lot more than 5 hours a week. You say these things because you think it somehow bolsters your argument. I would think the last thing RD wants is 30+ Nihilum with BiS gear being forced online with nothing better to do then attack RD exp groups.

[HippoNipple]

Originally Posted by Kergan [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You were in Nihilum. You know damn well they raid a lot more than 5 hours a week. You say these things because you think it somehow bolsters your argument. I would think the last thing RD wants is 30+ Nihilum with BiS gear being forced online with nothing better to do then attack RD exp groups.

It only takes so long to level up to 60. Eventually it would be Nihilum and RD groups pvping over content throughout the week as it should be.

[Kergan]

Originally Posted by HippoNipple [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Nihilum is a zerg of casual players led by a small force of hardcore players. The casuals would be left behind if variance was added in. Organizing 50 players to log into a game 3 hours a week hurts the population that is logging in every day to enjoy the game.

Red Dawn currently does content in zones where raid targets spawn and with variance they could take them while they are already there. Down the road other guilds that build up could do the same. Red Dawn isn't going to be doing the same content forever, they just started up.

A good crew of 20 dedicated players should be able to log in and snipe a raid target but as it stands now all raid targets are eaten up by a zerg of 30 casuals and 20 hardcore players every week.

If all the end game is reduced to this pathetic amount of time investment, killing bosses in seconds, why not flip a switch and change it to a system where this game can be enjoyed throughout the week? If they same group is still dominating the server then how is it any worse?

It is too tough to convince those with blinders on, receiving the benefit of all the end game with little to no time investment. You won't get those greedy players to want to horde all the pixels into one guild bank to root for a system that promotes server health, competition and enjoyment.

As you mentioned Velious will fix this as well and it is why most of the talk of variance has subsided. The devs already made it clear that they cannot do more than 1 thing, very slowly, at once.

The code is already enabled on R99. They made a conscience decision not to turn on variance here, the work is already done.

Sorry to beat this drum yet again, but there is already a method of contention that is completely available and always has been. As Zade has stated, if you want it, take it.

I guess we just disagree on what will actually happen. I don't see RD being allowed to farm a godless plane without being attacked constantly if there is a chance the god can spawn. Or do 30 person jugg raids for spells if Trakanon might pop in that window. I think what will actually happen is Nihilum making the focus wiping RD constantly so they can take mobs uncontested. That's ugly for everyone.