Bandwagon Proposal Thread.

[Sinestria]

Originally Posted by Sinestria [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This is a pretty good proposal surprisingly. I think that something more needs to be done with VS though, he is not a gatekeeper to VP and should not be treated as such

[Alarti0001]

Originally Posted by Sinestria [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

..

VS can be competed at. He is very easy to kill and just requires FTE. CT also has nothing to do with VP.

CT/VS/VP drop top tier loot and are the highest desired targets outside of PD for Tier A raiders.

This is a compromise.... not a get everything you want.

[Sinestria]

Originally Posted by Alarti0001 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

VS can be competed at. He is very easy to kill and just requires FTE. CT also has nothing to do with VP.

CT/VS/VP drop top tier loot and are the highest desired targets outside of PD for Tier A raiders.

This is a compromise.... not a get everything you want.

A compromise would be "tier A will sit out on x amount of VS and x amount of CT". The compromise is that you get to 100% compete in all Trak kills (continued blocking of VP entry)

[uygi]

Originally Posted by Sinestria [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

A compromise would be "tier A will sit out on x amount of VS and x amount of CT". The compromise is that you get to 100% compete in all Trak kills (continued blocking of VP entry)

I said that I think all mobs should at least sometimes... at least every once in a while... follow whatever distribution the Tier B guilds see fit. They would of course be welcome to compete against anyone at any other time as well, as Taken has demonstrated with Inny a lot recently.

Don't forget that there are people that have put in months of effort to earn their spot in line for a rare epic drop, tracking and attending very competitive encounters to earn it. How often do you really expect them to sit idly by while some other guild gets, in relative terms, what amounts to a freebie? I'm not saying the mobs/drops should be totally reserved for Tier A guilds, but don't expect too huge a piece of the pie either.
It's not a very big pie.

[Sinestria]

Originally Posted by uygi [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I said that I think all mobs should at least sometimes... at least every once in a while... follow whatever distribution the Tier B guilds see fit. They would of course be welcome to compete against anyone at any other time as well, as Taken has demonstrated with Inny a lot recently.

Don't forget that there are people that have put in months of effort to earn their spot in line for a rare epic drop, tracking and attending very competitive encounters to earn it. How often do you really expect them to sit idly by while some other guild gets, in relative terms, what amounts to a freebie? I'm not saying the mobs/drops should be totally reserved for Tier A guilds, but don't expect too huge a piece of the pie either.
It's not a very big pie.

You chose to "compete" with them, that's on you. Asking for 50% of VS pops for the majority of the server to compete on is not unreasonable.

[Spitty]

Originally Posted by Sinestria [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You chose to "compete" with them, that's on you. Asking for 50% of VS pops for the majority of the server to compete on is not unreasonable.

It kind of is.

You can't expect competitive, top-tier guilds to leave mobs up while people attempt to compete for trak teeth in order to attempt to compete for VP fights. That is unreasonable to the core.

VP is inherently endgame. You either jump the hoops necessary to get in and then fight for your mobs, or you don't.

Throwing some VP handholding into this is just going to unnecessarily complicate things.

[Alarti0001]

Originally Posted by Sinestria [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You chose to "compete" with them, that's on you. Asking for 50% of VS pops for the majority of the server to compete on is not unreasonable.

Asking for VS to be 100% competitive when a 1000% increase in raid mobs is already on the table isn't at all unreasonable either.

[uygi]

Originally Posted by Sinestria [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You chose to "compete" with them, that's on you. Asking for 50% of VS pops for the majority of the server to compete on is not unreasonable.

So I apologize for RL analogies for an elf simulator, but this would more or less be like you work really hard for a promotion for a year or two (or 5 or 10), and right before the next promotional opening gets filled, they decide to revamp the selection procedure to equally allow brand-new hires the same shot at the position, and then somebody tells you 'You chose to "work hard' for them, that's on you." Change happens, and somebody is inevitably going to be unhappy with almost any change, but try to understand where a lot of people are coming from.

And in case you're worried I'm lobbying for myself, I don't have much platinum and never did, and I have SK and wizard epics that I worked my ass off for in 2 different guilds (neither of which would probably qualify as Tier A under the definitions we're working with right now) plus a mage epic I bought which required me to sell most everything I had, including my only fungi back when the price had dropped to 30k. While I'm in a "Tier A" guild today, I got pretty much all my loot for all my characters without being in a Tier A guild. I didn't get it for free, I worked hard and made major contributions to my guilds over the course of years. I don't often see Tier B guilds working hard, even within their means, so forgive me for being a little cynical when they ask for stuff.

[Handull]

Originally Posted by Sinestria [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

A compromise would be "tier A will sit out on x amount of VS and x amount of CT". The compromise is that you get to 100% compete in all Trak kills (continued blocking of VP entry)

if fe/ib and tmo sit out on a vs with 96+ hour variance, who do you really think is going to sit there for 4+ days straight? maybe bda will, but most other guilds will spend a few hours there at prime time when a bored member is online. we need to get rid of most (but not all) of variance for smaller guilds to even think its worth it to track a mob for 4+days

[BlkCamel]

Originally Posted by Sinestria [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

A compromise would be "tier A will sit out on x amount of VS and x amount of CT". The compromise is that you get to 100% compete in all Trak kills (continued blocking of VP entry)

This proposal is great because it is simple and easy to follow. I understand the above arguments about VP, but it is the highest of raiding in Classic/Kunark. Why not treat it as such? But, if we are going to do this you cannot lock guilds from gaining access to VP.

You must concede some VP Key mobs to Tier B guilds. You have to give them a chance to get keyed and compete, but once they do they are recognized as a top raiding guild when they get a VP kill. 30 days elevated status is not a game-breaker. If they decide they cannot compete they will be right back at Tier B.



I implore everyone to accept this offer. It is simple and practical.