Proposition For Raid Rules - Input Requested

[Fael]

[QUOTE= I think people would have a lot more fun trying dragons with low numbers low gear and actual prep time when it spawns...[/QUOTE]

Ugrim. I know you cannot understand this, but a large percentage of people have sought out eq, and continue to play eq, because content is not instanced. This is a MMO, not a co-op.

There are 17 raid worthy mobs in Kunark, and an abundance of guilds capable of killing them. In your ideal raid world, the guilds on this server would be incentived into breaking into several different pieces to (1) kill things with the smallest force possible (maximum fun in your mind), and (2) maintain some semblance of efficiency.

The resulting rotation would be a raid calendar filled with 10-15 guilds, averaging basically one kill per week, 5 or so kills per month. This is hardly compelling. I understand that its compelling to you, because apparently all you want is a thrill every now and then and you're happy. I wonder if after a month of that you would still find it compelling.

TMO/IB/FE and some other guilds who actually want to raid and compete (albiet in a respectful way) represent a large portion of this servers population. Lets not throw the baby out with the bathwater, to borrow a phrase from BMQ.


Dolic

[Ungriim]

Originally Posted by Fael [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Ugrim. I know you cannot understand this, but a large percentage of people have sought out eq, and continue to play eq, because content is not instanced. This is a MMO, not a co-op.

.....

The resulting rotation would be a raid calendar filled with 10-15 guilds, averaging basically one kill per week, 5 or so kills per month.....

Dolic

Dolic - I understand that you either do not know how to read or have no ability to comprehend meta or abstract thought.

I'm not saying to take down the raid scene. In fact my plan would have it be the same 90% of the time. I never said shit about any type of forced rotation. I said that the 2 hour rule implies a rotation until a 3rd guild gets established to challenge. I also said that my idea would imply that for top tier guilds - 4/4 weeks would be FTE on VP and 3/4 weeks would be FTE on old content, while for lower guilds it would be 4/4 weeks FTE in VP, 3/4 weeks it would be FTE on old content, and 1/4 weeks it would be FTE circa 2010/2011 p99 raid scene.

[Splorf22]

Dolic, you keep using this word 'competition', and I'm not sure you know what it means. How do you plan to be better than the other guy?

For example: a basketball player can be taller, or faster, or have better reflexes, or have a better three point shot. A quake player can have better reflexes or practice more than his opponents. A chess player can calculate better or learn more openings. An EQ player in 2001 could outlevel or out AA his competitors, and come up with new strategies.

None of this applies on P1999. Everyone uses the same simple strategies - especially for raiding, which is basically 'put on MR gear and faceroll your keyboard for 30 seconds'. The game is slow as molasses, so reflexes don't apply. We have Vent to coordinate easily, and the game mechanics don't prevent people from showing up with three times the number of people the designers intended.

So 'competition' on this server is defined purely in terms of time spent. Time spent tracking, time spent leveling and gearing your alt army so you can camp out (and don't care if one of them is banned for training), time spent batphoning in the middle of the night. And all of these are artifacts of variance. None of them would matter with true classic mechanics. People keep saying 'Oh, in classic the uberguilds got everything'. Yes, but that was because a) Verant moved the content treadmill very fast and b) they actually had to figure stuff out. None of that applies here.

Therefore, when you say 'TMO and other guilds actually want to raid and compete' what you are really saying is 'My dopamine levels are dependent on non-classic mechanics which allow me to kill pixel dragons because I spend more time facerolling my keyboard than the other players'.

[Fael]

Originally Posted by Splorf22 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Dolic, you keep using this word 'competition', and I'm not sure you know what it means. How do you plan to be better than the other guy?

Loraen, your initial response questions my understanding of the word competition, but then you digress into talking about the concept of "being better than the other guy,"fast reflexes, etc. Ironically, that really has nothing to do with the word competition, which is simply "the act or process of trying to get or win something (such as a prize or a higher level of success) that someone else is also trying to get or win."

That said, i trust that you actually do know what the word competition means. And I imagine that supremacy can in fact read and write (i for one can do it better than 95% of people who took the LSAT three years ago, which admittedly doesn't mean much).

There are aspects of raiding now that I absolutely find compelling. I for one enjoy kiting fear while other guilds are also trying to go for the engage. I enjoy finding and pulling dragons before the other guild gets fte, etc, etc. I enjoy rushing to form up groups, get final buffs, and engage trakanon or others mob as quickly as possible before the other guild does, or if the other guild engages too early and fails, etc. All of that requires decisions to be made, coordination, luck, the possibility of failure, etc, which makes raiding compelling to me.

I admit, my dopamine levels are dependent on the fact that not every encounter is like Noble, where several guilds spam auto attack and murder the mob in masse. You of course may want it to be that bad, in hopes that the sheer retardedness would force a rotation.

I question whether or not that would actually force a rotation, particularly when velious is supposedly 3 months out, and considering that most velious mobs are on a variance anyways.


Dolic

[Splorf22]

Originally Posted by Fael [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Loraen, your initial response questions my understanding of the word competition, but then you digress into talking about the concept of "being better than the other guy,"fast reflexes, etc. Ironically, that really has nothing to do with the word competition, which is simply "the act or process of trying to get or win something (such as a prize or a higher level of success) that someone else is also trying to get or win."

Well, I had something else planned and I guess in the end it didn't quite flow. Anyway, I still think that most people would not consider pole-sitting to be competition even if does meet the Webster's definition.

Originally Posted by Fael

There are aspects of raiding now that I absolutely find compelling. I for one enjoy kiting fear while other guilds are also trying to go for the engage. I enjoy finding and pulling dragons before the other guild gets fte, etc, etc. I enjoy rushing to form up groups, get final buffs, and engage trakanon or others mob as quickly as possible before the other guild does, or if the other guild engages too early and fails, etc. All of that requires decisions to be made, coordination, luck, the possibility of failure, etc, which makes raiding compelling to me.

If this is the best you can do I'm going to have to call that a Fael (snicker). Seriously: getting FTE on dragons = running around with selos while hitting track and making sure your partner eats the charm. Who needs groups for Trakanon anyway when you have 50? And you have one guy who has to count classes and make a guess for the engage. It's like a version of the SAT with all the hard questions removes that caps at 700 combined. Again: 95% of success on the current raid scene is predicated on time invested.

Originally Posted by Fael

I admit, my dopamine levels are dependent on the fact that not every encounter is like Noble, where several guilds spam auto attack and murder the mob in masse. You of course may want it to be that bad, in hopes that the sheer retardedness would force a rotation.

No, I want repops. The reason I keep harping on variance is that I keep hearing this 'we put more effort in we deserver more mobs' nonsense. That is only true because of variance, ergo you guys have been getting handouts for years now.

And if I have to choose between no variance (= retarded FTE spam) and variance (= retarded tracking and batphoning) I'm going to choose no variance because at least its a) fair and b) wastes less time.