First to Engage: Exploiting the mechanic?

[Derubael]

Originally Posted by Origin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Here's my proposal for each mob and for the number of necessary people:

Lord Nagafen 6
Lady Vox 6
Dracoliche 6
Innoruuk 12
Cazic Thule 12
Venril Sathir 12
Faydedar 12
Severilous 12
Talendor 12
Gorenaire 12
Trakanon 12
Silverwing 18
Hoshkar 18
Druushk 18
Nexona 18
Phara Dar 18
Xygoz 18

Stop the stalling and kiting.

This specific idea is likely not going to happen. Here's the problem. If I need 12 people to engage VS, it means I need to stick 12 people on VS' spawn point in order to catch FTE when he pops. If he's in window, that means potentially having 12+ people in my guild sitting on his spawn point for 96+ hrs so I can catch FTE, when I could easily stick 2 trackers there instead and have my raid force there in about a minute. Organization and mobilization trumps poopsocking. It takes more skill, coordination, and effort than simply planting 20 people on a spawn and spamming a /target venril autoattack macro. Do less with more and stop the poopsocking! We all know how much I love VS poopsocks, but I worry about everyones health [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Originally Posted by Origin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

People talk about this, but honestly, when was the last time ANY of the listed mobs was killed with less than the number i listed? In fact, i'd be willing to bet that the thresholds listed were never broken on this server, by anybody. Not because people can't do it, but because of the competition and the fact that guilds can't exclude people from kills.

It's fine that people keep suggesting that they have skill and that they can do less with more. But you won't be able to beat the top guilds unless you play their game, and their game is numbers.

Also, if you find any of the said mobs up and you want to try them without the "required minimum", you can still do it. You just won't get an FTE shout.

Their game isn't numbers, its mobilization. Period. While it does help to have a bunch of geared alts to camp out near spawns, the bottom line is if you don't have the organization to get those numbers onto the mob, you aren't going to get it. This not only encourages competition but also discourages people from poopsocking.

Let's use Trak as an example. The other day fe/ib got a Trak engage with just a few people in the zone. You guys were able to get your raid force in and down trak in about ~2minutes. This took skill, organization, mobilization, and was a good kill. These are the kinds of things we want to encourage here, not planting 50 people at trak spawn and having me turn you all into boats.

Intentionally stalling a mob will always be against the rules. If you see it happening, fraps and petition. Something I don't want happening is people making calls once another guild has FTE to tag the target from another guild and snatch the loots. Leave it to the staff to make that call.

[Brut]

Originally Posted by Derubael [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

These are the kinds of things we want to encourage here, not planting 50 people at trak spawn and having me turn you all into boats.

There are still 50 people sitting around trak spawn, they're just on char select instead of ingame. People still have to be constantly close to their keyboards to make it online in under a minute. Also failing to see any particular skill in "we recruited enough people to ensure we get a sufficient trak killforce online in minus 60seconds". All this rly does is encourage/necessate zerging.

[Derubael]

Originally Posted by Brut [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

There are still 50 people sitting around trak spawn, they're just on char select instead of ingame. People still have to be constantly close to their keyboards to make it online in under a minute. Also failing to see any particular skill in "we recruited enough people to ensure we get a sufficient trak killforce online in minus 60seconds". All this rly does is encourage/necessate zerging.

So.. I'm not really sure how origins suggestion in this thread would change that, if that's what you believe to be true?

[Brut]

Originally Posted by Derubael [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

So.. I'm not really sure how origins suggestion in this thread would change that, if that's what you believe to be true?

Wasn't talking about OP, just saying that it's kinda silly to claim that one type of poopsock is somehow more skillful than the other.

If have to talk about Origins thing, honestly don't think it matters either way. The raidscene is/has always been full of frothing idiocy and ultimately any changes the staff tries to improve it with will be quickly distorted into something even more retarded.

[Alarti0001]

Originally Posted by Brut [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Wasn't talking about OP, just saying that it's kinda silly to claim that one type of poopsock is somehow more skillful than the other.

If have to talk about Origins thing, honestly don't think it matters either way. The raidscene is/has always been full of frothing idiocy and ultimately any changes the staff tries to improve it with will be quickly distorted into something even more retarded.

1 is poopsocking 1 isnt. You must be talking to Chest too much.

[Origin]

Originally Posted by Derubael [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

So.. I'm not really sure how origins suggestion in this thread would change that, if that's what you believe to be true?

It would change it in the sense that one semi-lucky, non-AFK person wouldn't determine the outcome of the entire battle. One person wouldn't be able to stall for nearly 60 seconds while another guild is ready to actually engage and kill the mob in question.

[Alarti0001]

Originally Posted by Origin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It would change it in the sense that one semi-lucky, non-AFK person wouldn't determine the outcome of the entire battle. One person wouldn't be able to stall for nearly 60 seconds while another guild is ready to actually engage and kill the mob in question.

Pulling is stalling... You are suggesting camping out on every spawn point. Poopsocking isn't the solution.

[sanforce]

Originally Posted by Origin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It would change it in the sense that one semi-lucky, non-AFK person wouldn't determine the outcome of the entire battle. One person wouldn't be able to stall for nearly 60 seconds while another guild is ready to actually engage and kill the mob in question.

Hmmm, so with your rule change ideas, couldn't raid guilds just have a bunch of low level bards in game, afk, playing group songs to ensure they get on the agro list?

Group 1: warrior (tracking), bard (afk), bard (afk), bard (afk), bard (afk), bard (afk)
Group 2: cleric (tracking), bard (afk), bard (afk), bard (afk), bard (afk), bard (afk)

That's 12 people on the agro list as long as the cleric and warrior engage, then they can just evasive / DA stall like normal while their raid force logs in.

[Soandso]

Lol at people complaining about TMO's monopoly and wanting raid zones to be pvp. So you want to PVP against the largest and and best geared guild instead of trying to outmobilize them? Gl with that.

[Elderan]

Originally Posted by Soandso [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Lol at people complaining about TMO's monopoly and wanting raid zones to be pvp. So you want to PVP against the largest and and best geared guild instead of trying to outmobilize them? Gl with that.

Oh they would lose, but it would be much more fun watching...