First to Engage: Exploiting the mechanic?

[Lyra]

Originally Posted by Origin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Here's my proposal for each mob and for the number of necessary people:

Lord Nagafen 6
Lady Vox 6
Dracoliche 6
Innoruuk 12
Cazic Thule 12
Venril Sathir 12
Faydedar 12
Severilous 12
Talendor 12
Gorenaire 12
Trakanon 12
Silverwing 18
Hoshkar 18
Druushk 18
Nexona 18
Phara Dar 18
Xygoz 18

Stop the stalling and kiting.

I keep suggesting people watch Sirken's stream. You would understand why this won't happen.

Part of the challenge for a lot of players (especially on this server of veteran players) is doing more with less. Creating this list will prevent smaller groups the opportunity to challenge themselves.

[SyanideGas]

Originally Posted by OMGWTF420 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

its just downright sad that people are still trying to cheat each other out of this content. i dont come around here much anymore but when i do im always a little more disheartened to see that people still cant just share

<3 Tara bro

[Zapatos]

Originally Posted by Tycko [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This is exactly what happened:

The tank engages on spawn.
-No kiting
-The mob is in camp
-Raid force comes to you

There is nothing against this rule preventing a tank and healer from initiating a raid encounter, and applying some minimum number of players before the tank and healer can engage is impossible to enforce.

I agree DA stalling is silly, but it has been proven to be accepted as ok by GM's since all high end raid guilds use it.

That's where I have to disagree, as that's what the "or otherwise keep occupied" language referred to. DA stalling was absolutely in reference to that, but has since changed to a valid raid strat. Cucumbers has it right, the list just needs to be updated to reflect the current raid rules.

[Reguiy]

Originally Posted by Origin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Here's my proposal for each mob and for the number of necessary people:

Lord Nagafen 6
Lady Vox 6
Dracoliche 6
Innoruuk 12
Cazic Thule 12
Venril Sathir 12
Faydedar 12
Severilous 12
Talendor 12
Gorenaire 12
Trakanon 12
Silverwing 18
Hoshkar 18
Druushk 18
Nexona 18
Phara Dar 18
Xygoz 18

Stop the stalling and kiting.

Believe it or not, Tiggles once had the same idea as you. He suggested it on Sirken's stream. It was promptly shot down by Sirken for 2 reason. It discourages doing more with less, and it encourages poopsocking.

[Origin]

Originally Posted by Lyra [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I keep suggesting people watch Sirken's stream. You would understand why this won't happen.

Part of the challenge for a lot of players (especially on this server of veteran players) is doing more with less. Creating this list will prevent smaller groups the opportunity to challenge themselves.

People talk about this, but honestly, when was the last time ANY of the listed mobs was killed with less than the number i listed? In fact, i'd be willing to bet that the thresholds listed were never broken on this server, by anybody. Not because people can't do it, but because of the competition and the fact that guilds can't exclude people from kills.

It's fine that people keep suggesting that they have skill and that they can do less with more. But you won't be able to beat the top guilds unless you play their game, and their game is numbers.

Also, if you find any of the said mobs up and you want to try them without the "required minimum", you can still do it. You just won't get an FTE shout.

[Wotsirb401]

We did VS with 14 with the most god awful lag people were ghosting all over the place, i dont know how healers kept me alive

[Origin]

Originally Posted by Reguiy [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Believe it or not, Tiggles once had the same idea as you. He suggested it on Sirken's stream. It was promptly shot down by Sirken for 2 reason. It discourages doing more with less, and it encourages poopsocking.

The thresholds that i listed are minimal. Do ANY of those mobs with the numbers i listed and you'll get mad props. Those mobs will never get done with numbers less than those, at least until Velious.

As for the poopsocking reason, give me a fucking break. Having 40+ people on standby ready to answer batphones within 20 seconds is just as bad as 20 semi afk dudes poopsocking.

[Reguiy]

Originally Posted by Origin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It's fine that people keep suggesting that they have skill and that they can do less with more. But you won't be able to beat the top guilds unless you play their game, and their game is numbers.

From what I've gathered, all this controversy has to do with 2 TMO beating 10 FE/IB on FTE for VS, and then stalling until the rest of their force showed up. You have 2 people in your guild, what's to prevent you from doing the same thing?

[Splorf22]

Originally Posted by Fael [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If you look at how long the new variance has been in place, it basically has worked.

Over the last 6-10 months, however long its been, poop socks have only occurred for a month or so max, when competing guilds have made the decision to try to burn themselves out in the fastest possible way.

Perhaps it will take another month for some people to re-learn that poopsocking doesn't pay in the long run.

Dolic

Come on. Variance just replaced one fucked up situation with another. It reminds me of Major Payne breaking thumbs.

[Alarti0001]

Originally Posted by Reguiy [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

From what I've gathered, all this controversy has to do with 2 TMO beating 10 FE/IB on FTE for VS, and then stalling until the rest of their force showed up. You have 2 people in your guild, what's to prevent you from doing the same thing?

<3