Training in Veeshan's peak?

[Jingleson]

Originally Posted by Tasslehofp99 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

So I guess its time to re-bump this thread that I started a while back:

http://www.project1999.org/forums/sh...d.php?t=117238

Wait a minute, you're ALLOWED to deliberately train entire raid groups in high-level zones like VP and Planes? There's no rule against it?

[Ele]

Originally Posted by Jingleson [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Wait a minute, you're ALLOWED to deliberately train entire raid groups in high-level zones like VP and Planes? There's no rule against it?

Only in Veeshan's Peak on P99. There has not been an official word on Temple of Veeshan and Sleeper's Tomb, but for now the Planes are no train zones.

P99 does not follow the Non-CSR rule from live. On Live all of the planes, temple of veeshan, sleeper's tomb, and veeshan's peak were "Non-CSR" meaning they would not help you retrieve corpses (except for demonstrable game bugs), but the Play Nice policy was still in effect. People in the above linked thread contend that training was allowed in Veeshan's Peak on live, but no proof of any such activities has been presented that I recall from the gigantic thread.

[Jingleson]

Originally Posted by Ele [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Only in Veeshan's Peak on P99. There has not been an official word on Temple of Veeshan and Sleeper's Tomb, but for now the Planes are no train zones.

P99 does not follow the Non-CSR rule from live. On Live all of the planes, temple of veeshan, sleeper's tomb, and veeshan's peak were "Non-CSR" meaning they would not help you retrieve corpses (except for demonstrable game bugs), but the Play Nice policy was still in effect. People in the above linked thread contend that training was allowed in Veeshan's Peak on live, but no proof of any such activities has been presented that I recall from the gigantic thread.

Why is it allowed in VP though? Doesn't that constitute a form of griefing or harrassment? Should be prohibited either way.

[Ele]

Originally Posted by Jingleson [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Why is it allowed in VP though? Doesn't that constitute a form of griefing or harrassment? Should be prohibited either way.

It most certainly does, but the GMs have decided that it is appropriate behavior since P99 does not use the Play Nice Policy or Non-CSR policy from Live, but a custom rule set.

I think of VP training and variance as a social experiment just for the staff to see how long groups of people are willing to sit in a spot waiting for a dragon or how many person-hours will be expended in the name of killing said dragon. Some days it only reason I can come up with for continuing to allow the behavior.

[Jingleson]

Originally Posted by Ele [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It most certainly does, but the GMs have decided that it is appropriate behavior since P99 does not use the Play Nice Policy or Non-CSR policy from Live, but a custom rule set.

I think of VP training and variance as a social experiment just for the staff to see how long groups of people are willing to sit in a spot waiting for a dragon or how many person-hours will be expended in the name of killing said dragon. Some days it only reason I can come up with for continuing to allow the behavior.

I guess I'll be staying out of VP then. I'm more interested in seeing planar content anyway.

Alarti, if that's the case with VP, then why not just come to an agreement with opposing guilds that wish to run that content to set up a rotation, one guild gets it one week, another guild gets in the next week, and all other guilds stay out until it's their turn on the rotation? Wouldn't that alleviate some of the problems and give everyone a chance to get what they need from VP?

[Andervin]

Originally Posted by Jingleson [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Alarti, if that's the case with VP, then why not just come to an agreement with opposing guilds that wish to run that content to set up a rotation, one guild gets it one week, another guild gets in the next week, and all other guilds stay out until it's their turn on the rotation? Wouldn't that alleviate some of the problems and give everyone a chance to get what they need from VP?

heh [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[Alarti0001]

Originally Posted by Jingleson [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I guess I'll be staying out of VP then. I'm more interested in seeing planar content anyway.

Alarti, if that's the case with VP, then why not just come to an agreement with opposing guilds that wish to run that content to set up a rotation, one guild gets it one week, another guild gets in the next week, and all other guilds stay out until it's their turn on the rotation? Wouldn't that alleviate some of the problems and give everyone a chance to get what they need from VP?

Rotation isn't competition. Why don't the GM's just make VP instanced?

[Jingleson]

Originally Posted by Alarti0001 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Rotation isn't competition. Why don't the GM's just make VP instanced?

Why does the raiding scene absolutely have to be an all-out war between guilds? I realize that some people want to be the best they can be, but that doesn't mean they have to keep something on lockdown and NEVER let anyone have a shot at it.

[Ele]

Originally Posted by Jingleson [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I guess I'll be staying out of VP then. I'm more interested in seeing planar content anyway.

Alarti, if that's the case with VP, then why not just come to an agreement with opposing guilds that wish to run that content to set up a rotation, one guild gets it one week, another guild gets in the next week, and all other guilds stay out until it's their turn on the rotation? Wouldn't that alleviate some of the problems and give everyone a chance to get what they need from VP?

You're assuming all sides are rational actors, rather than people playing the "it's mine and no one else's" game. Rotations would most certainly be a better use of everyone's time, as would a lack of variance in spawn timers. It would eliminate "tracking" the practice of having one or more people per guild sit at or near a boss spawn point smashing the track button or visually watching the screen for hours on end (don't forget you need enough people to cover these spawns for 24 hours every day otherwise you might miss it) until it spawns, upon which the tracker sends a mass email/text message to their guild's roster letting people know to log in their pre-camped and buffed characters to attempt to engage the boss first.

The "competition" outside Veeshan's Peak comes from being the first to log in a sufficient number of people in order to achieve "First to Engage" status on the mob, which grants that guild the exclusive right to kill that mob and take it's loot. However if said FTE guild loses the FTE, another guild can pick it up and claim the mob as theirs. This can bounce back in forth as pullers die or tanks go down, while reinforcements log in. Training or other raid interference can cause the FTE guild to forfeit their kill and loots and possibly earn a suspension, same for the non-FTE guild.

The "competition" in Veeshan's Peak consists not of being first to engage a dragon, but of training the ever living crap of each other's raids, when an opposing side shows up. Logging in and out with buffs until the pullers and counter-train players have a decent window for a pull and call people to log in.

[Alarti0001]

Originally Posted by Jingleson [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Wait a minute, you're ALLOWED to deliberately train entire raid groups in high-level zones like VP and Planes? There's no rule against it?

The reasons the rules have been made this way is because of the nature of VP. The zone is dysfunctional and in a competitive manner it would be highly difficult to not train an opposing raid. This would lead to lots petitions over accidents or "accidents" which would result in the GM's picking and choosing what is an actual accident.
They basically decided to let it be open to avoid that.