Server Raid Rules - New and Improved

[Noleafclover]

Originally Posted by nilbog [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

That's the point. If you want to "camp" CT, good luck.

Aye, these raid rules a huge upgrade on CT. And don't get me wrong, they're certainly better than the last. Props for making a needed change, you guys are definitely showing you care/listen, and deserve credit for it. But but but (yes I know)

Ban people for standing around a spawn point?

Yes. Have rules that say they will get suspended. If it's illegal, it will stop getting done for the most part. And if not, they get suspended. Problem solved.

I mean I really don't get this, we're all anti-camping, and trying to think up ways to get rid of camping. Just. Say. No. Camping.

And then, like it has been, first w/ 15 in zone once something spawned have claim. Solves all the leapfrogging and same-time-pulling drama too. It's like a two-move checkmate. And back to tracking and racing.

And really, camping's not hard to prove (assuming people are eager for suspensions . . . . . .). SS of 10-25 people standing around in Sol B, even a /who of sol b along with SS's at efreeti, royals, bnb, window should do it, if they're f*cking super-invisible ninjas from outer space (which would be cool - and I think any changes should stipulate super-invisible ninjas from outer space are immune to suspensions).

EDIT: Not tryin to be confrontational, just to make my point.

[Evorix]

Originally Posted by Noleafclover [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Yes. Have rules that say they will get suspended. If it's illegal, it will stop getting done for the most part. And if not, they get suspended. Problem solved.

I mean I really don't get this, we're all anti-camping, and trying to think up ways to get rid of camping. Just. Say. No. Camping.

And then, like it has been, first w/ 15 in zone once something spawned have claim. Solves all the leapfrogging and same-time-pulling drama too. It's like a two-move checkmate. And back to tracking and racing.

Sooooo... you instead want people to camp outside the zone waiting for a mob to pop and rush to zone in to get 15 first???? If you end camping in a zone, people will just sit outside and wait for the call to zone in. It will change nothing except who gets the first SS of 15 of their guild in the zone.

[Noleafclover]

Originally Posted by Evorix [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Sooooo... you instead want people to camp outside the zone waiting for a mob to pop and rush to zone in to get 15 first???? If you end camping in a zone, people will just sit outside and wait for the call to zone in. It will change nothing except who gets the first SS of 15 of their guild in the zone.

Your point's somewhat valid, my rules are not hugely better than the current because of it - unless you disallow camping in adjacents (not a huge hit, WI doesn't farm lava frequently, at least...) or make it first 15 to a certain distance from spawn (but that's hard to prove). But to me, even the quoted is preferred to first force back to keyboards to turn the corner. I think people may poopsock outside of the bosses, both get the texts, and try to engage at the same time (on current changes).

[Bumamgar]

Originally Posted by Evorix [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Sooooo... you instead want people to camp outside the zone waiting for a mob to pop and rush to zone in to get 15 first???? If you end camping in a zone, people will just sit outside and wait for the call to zone in. It will change nothing except who gets the first SS of 15 of their guild in the zone.

The new rules state 15 people in aggro radius of the mob have claim. There's nothing in the new rules about 15 in zone. So if folks camp outside the zone and rust to zone in to get 15 first, it still means nothing. The new rules are essentially "first to engage with 15+".

[Lostprophets]

Originally Posted by Bumamgar [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The new rules state 15 people in aggro radius of the mob have claim. There's nothing in the new rules about 15 in zone. So if folks camp outside the zone and rust to zone in to get 15 first, it still means nothing. The new rules are essentially "first to engage with 15+".

thats where the "Please be respectful to your fellow players and respect their space. If there is a guild getting ready to raid Hate for some armor and they start pulling creatures, don't go up there and sit on top of them pulling mobs in their area as well. If Guild A is doing Hate, then perhaps Guild B should be doing Fear. Basically, don't be a douche bag."

that rule comes into play. Imo if you see someone forming for a target and clearing mobs in the pathway for maestro or inny or something for example, don't try to pull through them, don't try to pass them, just simply wait for them to wipe (if they're on the pure path to them clearly and not clearing ALL trash), or thats just douche bagery if you try to leapfrog them, and from what i gather from this post that pulling shit like that is bannable on first offence?

Definitely running fraps from now on.

[Humerox]

Originally Posted by Lostprophets [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

thats where the "Please be respectful to your fellow players and respect their space. If there is a guild getting ready to raid Hate for some armor and they start pulling creatures, don't go up there and sit on top of them pulling mobs in their area as well. If Guild A is doing Hate, then perhaps Guild B should be doing Fear. Basically, don't be a douche bag."

that rule comes into play. Imo if you see someone forming for a target and clearing mobs in the pathway for maestro or inny or something for example, don't try to pull through them, don't try to pass them, just simply wait for them to wipe (if they're on the pure path to them clearly and not clearing ALL trash), or thats just douche bagery if you try to leapfrog them, and from what i gather from this post that pulling shit like that is bannable on first offence?

Definitely running fraps from now on.

Just a thought here. What stops a guild from sitting in the entrance of Hate for days? There's even less for them to worry about this way...since simply sitting at the zone in is going to deter other guilds from even entering the zone.

Scenario. Guild A sits at the zone in of hate for 2 days. Inny pops. Guild B has a tracker in zone. Guild B ports up.

Guild A then claims they were at zone in and therefore Guild B was disrespecting their raid.

See my point? Don't think this won't happen.

[Lostprophets]

Originally Posted by Humerox [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Just a thought here. What stops a guild from sitting in the entrance of Hate for days? There's even less for them to worry about this way...since simply sitting at the zone in is going to deter other guilds from even entering the zone.

Scenario. Guild A sits at the zone in of hate for 2 days. Inny pops. Guild B has a tracker in zone. Guild B ports up.

Guild A then claims they were at zone in and therefore Guild B was disrespecting their raid.

See my point? Don't think this won't happen.

there's always gray matter according to GMs.
they just need to tweak the rules a bit for particular zones is all.

I.E. you cannot sit idle at the zone in of hate for more than like 1 hr (claiming the zone/poopsocking due to the rule i stated by nilbog before), you have to CONSTANTLY be killing stuff (excluding the trashy roamers that repop before the actual mobs that drop stuff, this also excludes buffing if for some freakish reason it takes you an hour to buff up...zurg guilds with like 60+, im assuming does.). or once the zone is CLEAR you must leave unless inny or maestro is up.

because that particularity is an error, i agree.

[Humerox]

Originally Posted by Lostprophets [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

there's always gray matter according to GMs.
they just need to tweak the rules a bit for particular zones is all.

Not arguing with you here, just want to point this out. You can kill the corner pops all day long...roamers too. Hate could be perma-camped by a single guild...IF it were left to players using loopholes and "play nice".

This was exactly what we all did before. The guilds of the time got together and clarified the rules. Player rules were made - in the interest of then AND future guilds mind you - then the camping loophole became obvious, and guess what? You all know what.

Not only that...someone came along and said "well, I weren't here...those rules don't apply to me."

People are going to find the loopholes and use them to their advantage, unless either the GM's make the rules, or the playerbase does.

That's why I have been advocating that the players get together and do it them doggoned selves...just like was done before; that way Nilbog and Rogean aren't hip-deep in petitions again.

All the old playerbase rules would have needed was an amendment that said "no camping". All the rules of engagement were laid out. Everything was specified...there were few, if any, gray areas.

The problem was...for whatever reason...devs said player rules were supported but not enforced. Which led us all BACK to this.

Someone is going to have to lay out the tweaks...and it should be the players versus the devs. I'd much rather them spend their time working on the game...instead of dicking around with us.

However...the new server rules are MUCH improved. Just want to reiterate this. :P

[girth]

Originally Posted by Bumamgar [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The new rules state 15 people in aggro radius of the mob have claim. There's nothing in the new rules about 15 in zone. So if folks camp outside the zone and rust to zone in to get 15 first, it still means nothing. The new rules are essentially "first to engage with 15+".

That should be clarified then. Currently the only place it lists 15+ is camping a boss that is not up yet. Or are you telling me that a 20 man raid can KS a 13 man raid after they engaged a boss? Assuming neither were there before it spawned.

[Skope]

Originally Posted by girth [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

That should be clarified then. Currently the only place it lists 15+ is camping a boss that is not up yet. Or are you telling me that a 20 man raid can KS a 13 man raid after they engaged a boss? Assuming neither were there before it spawned.

The gray area here and other places within these rules is quite large. The "don't be a douchebag" may even fall in line with don't kite until you're ready, or don't leapfrog. I understand it's difficult and there should be no reason to get into minute specifics, but nevertheless there are some quite large gaps that need some filling. I'm assuming the "don't be a douchebag" rule was an attempt to skip over the specifics and pile it up into a single rule without the need to make it too complex. There is still some large issues that should be clarified that don't necessarily require being jumbled into that douchebag rule and wouldn't require too much text. We've had the same issue with the prior rules and things were addressed via the players, I honestly don't see why that shouldn't happen again. Granted, we skipped quite a huge loophole and it was abused for months, so let's at least try to make sure that doesn't happen again.