Server Raid Rules - New and Improved

[nilbog]

Originally Posted by Brad_mo123 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

What about CT? cant exactly stand on his spawn point with the zone repopping, thats a for sure wipe, grats on bullet proof rules [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.].

That's the point. If you want to "camp" CT, good luck.

Originally Posted by Harrison [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You should just outright ban guilds from camping raid mobs, period.

None of this beating around the bush.

Ban people for standing around a spawn point? I understand your sentiment, but you should understand these rules discourage camping in general, and make afk camping nearly impossible. It is a clarification of first to engage, unless sufficient force is present to kill the npc when it spawns. That sufficient force has to be prepared to fight the moment it spawns, because they are in its aggro range. I assume you would have a better chance at succeeding by not camping the npc, and waiting on the first raid to fail from afk-camping.


From what I have seen and heard, guilds say they don't need a complicated ruleset. Prove it please.

[Noleafclover]

Originally Posted by nilbog [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

That's the point. If you want to "camp" CT, good luck.

Aye, these raid rules a huge upgrade on CT. And don't get me wrong, they're certainly better than the last. Props for making a needed change, you guys are definitely showing you care/listen, and deserve credit for it. But but but (yes I know)

Ban people for standing around a spawn point?

Yes. Have rules that say they will get suspended. If it's illegal, it will stop getting done for the most part. And if not, they get suspended. Problem solved.

I mean I really don't get this, we're all anti-camping, and trying to think up ways to get rid of camping. Just. Say. No. Camping.

And then, like it has been, first w/ 15 in zone once something spawned have claim. Solves all the leapfrogging and same-time-pulling drama too. It's like a two-move checkmate. And back to tracking and racing.

And really, camping's not hard to prove (assuming people are eager for suspensions . . . . . .). SS of 10-25 people standing around in Sol B, even a /who of sol b along with SS's at efreeti, royals, bnb, window should do it, if they're f*cking super-invisible ninjas from outer space (which would be cool - and I think any changes should stipulate super-invisible ninjas from outer space are immune to suspensions).

EDIT: Not tryin to be confrontational, just to make my point.

[Evorix]

Originally Posted by Noleafclover [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Yes. Have rules that say they will get suspended. If it's illegal, it will stop getting done for the most part. And if not, they get suspended. Problem solved.

I mean I really don't get this, we're all anti-camping, and trying to think up ways to get rid of camping. Just. Say. No. Camping.

And then, like it has been, first w/ 15 in zone once something spawned have claim. Solves all the leapfrogging and same-time-pulling drama too. It's like a two-move checkmate. And back to tracking and racing.

Sooooo... you instead want people to camp outside the zone waiting for a mob to pop and rush to zone in to get 15 first???? If you end camping in a zone, people will just sit outside and wait for the call to zone in. It will change nothing except who gets the first SS of 15 of their guild in the zone.

[Noleafclover]

Originally Posted by Evorix [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Sooooo... you instead want people to camp outside the zone waiting for a mob to pop and rush to zone in to get 15 first???? If you end camping in a zone, people will just sit outside and wait for the call to zone in. It will change nothing except who gets the first SS of 15 of their guild in the zone.

Your point's somewhat valid, my rules are not hugely better than the current because of it - unless you disallow camping in adjacents (not a huge hit, WI doesn't farm lava frequently, at least...) or make it first 15 to a certain distance from spawn (but that's hard to prove). But to me, even the quoted is preferred to first force back to keyboards to turn the corner. I think people may poopsock outside of the bosses, both get the texts, and try to engage at the same time (on current changes).

[Bumamgar]

Originally Posted by Evorix [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Sooooo... you instead want people to camp outside the zone waiting for a mob to pop and rush to zone in to get 15 first???? If you end camping in a zone, people will just sit outside and wait for the call to zone in. It will change nothing except who gets the first SS of 15 of their guild in the zone.

The new rules state 15 people in aggro radius of the mob have claim. There's nothing in the new rules about 15 in zone. So if folks camp outside the zone and rust to zone in to get 15 first, it still means nothing. The new rules are essentially "first to engage with 15+".

[Lostprophets]

Originally Posted by Bumamgar [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The new rules state 15 people in aggro radius of the mob have claim. There's nothing in the new rules about 15 in zone. So if folks camp outside the zone and rust to zone in to get 15 first, it still means nothing. The new rules are essentially "first to engage with 15+".

thats where the "Please be respectful to your fellow players and respect their space. If there is a guild getting ready to raid Hate for some armor and they start pulling creatures, don't go up there and sit on top of them pulling mobs in their area as well. If Guild A is doing Hate, then perhaps Guild B should be doing Fear. Basically, don't be a douche bag."

that rule comes into play. Imo if you see someone forming for a target and clearing mobs in the pathway for maestro or inny or something for example, don't try to pull through them, don't try to pass them, just simply wait for them to wipe (if they're on the pure path to them clearly and not clearing ALL trash), or thats just douche bagery if you try to leapfrog them, and from what i gather from this post that pulling shit like that is bannable on first offence?

Definitely running fraps from now on.

[Humerox]

Originally Posted by Lostprophets [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

thats where the "Please be respectful to your fellow players and respect their space. If there is a guild getting ready to raid Hate for some armor and they start pulling creatures, don't go up there and sit on top of them pulling mobs in their area as well. If Guild A is doing Hate, then perhaps Guild B should be doing Fear. Basically, don't be a douche bag."

that rule comes into play. Imo if you see someone forming for a target and clearing mobs in the pathway for maestro or inny or something for example, don't try to pull through them, don't try to pass them, just simply wait for them to wipe (if they're on the pure path to them clearly and not clearing ALL trash), or thats just douche bagery if you try to leapfrog them, and from what i gather from this post that pulling shit like that is bannable on first offence?

Definitely running fraps from now on.

Just a thought here. What stops a guild from sitting in the entrance of Hate for days? There's even less for them to worry about this way...since simply sitting at the zone in is going to deter other guilds from even entering the zone.

Scenario. Guild A sits at the zone in of hate for 2 days. Inny pops. Guild B has a tracker in zone. Guild B ports up.

Guild A then claims they were at zone in and therefore Guild B was disrespecting their raid.

See my point? Don't think this won't happen.

[Lostprophets]

Originally Posted by Humerox [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Just a thought here. What stops a guild from sitting in the entrance of Hate for days? There's even less for them to worry about this way...since simply sitting at the zone in is going to deter other guilds from even entering the zone.

Scenario. Guild A sits at the zone in of hate for 2 days. Inny pops. Guild B has a tracker in zone. Guild B ports up.

Guild A then claims they were at zone in and therefore Guild B was disrespecting their raid.

See my point? Don't think this won't happen.

there's always gray matter according to GMs.
they just need to tweak the rules a bit for particular zones is all.

I.E. you cannot sit idle at the zone in of hate for more than like 1 hr (claiming the zone/poopsocking due to the rule i stated by nilbog before), you have to CONSTANTLY be killing stuff (excluding the trashy roamers that repop before the actual mobs that drop stuff, this also excludes buffing if for some freakish reason it takes you an hour to buff up...zurg guilds with like 60+, im assuming does.). or once the zone is CLEAR you must leave unless inny or maestro is up.

because that particularity is an error, i agree.

[girth]

Originally Posted by Bumamgar [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The new rules state 15 people in aggro radius of the mob have claim. There's nothing in the new rules about 15 in zone. So if folks camp outside the zone and rust to zone in to get 15 first, it still means nothing. The new rules are essentially "first to engage with 15+".

That should be clarified then. Currently the only place it lists 15+ is camping a boss that is not up yet. Or are you telling me that a 20 man raid can KS a 13 man raid after they engaged a boss? Assuming neither were there before it spawned.

[Skope]

Originally Posted by girth [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

That should be clarified then. Currently the only place it lists 15+ is camping a boss that is not up yet. Or are you telling me that a 20 man raid can KS a 13 man raid after they engaged a boss? Assuming neither were there before it spawned.

The gray area here and other places within these rules is quite large. The "don't be a douchebag" may even fall in line with don't kite until you're ready, or don't leapfrog. I understand it's difficult and there should be no reason to get into minute specifics, but nevertheless there are some quite large gaps that need some filling. I'm assuming the "don't be a douchebag" rule was an attempt to skip over the specifics and pile it up into a single rule without the need to make it too complex. There is still some large issues that should be clarified that don't necessarily require being jumbled into that douchebag rule and wouldn't require too much text. We've had the same issue with the prior rules and things were addressed via the players, I honestly don't see why that shouldn't happen again. Granted, we skipped quite a huge loophole and it was abused for months, so let's at least try to make sure that doesn't happen again.