Raiding in P1999 is nothing like raiding in classic.

[Autotune]

Originally Posted by Tiddlywinks [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Why in God's name would I want to explain how to fix issues that occurred 2 years ago? That's a waste of time, and I already said as much here: http://www.project1999.org/forums/sh...&postcount=155

And of course I am complaining about bullshit and that is the entire point of the thread. Am I missing something?

Yeah, you are complaining yet offer no solutions to what you are complaining about.

You are no better than a troll.

[Tiddlywinks]

Originally Posted by Autotune [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Yeah, you are complaining yet offer no solutions to what you are complaining about.

You are no better than a troll.

Actually I did offer a solution to the problem, however it involves a time machine, since that's the only way to fix problems that occured 2 years ago.

No solution proposed today is going to fix issues that occured in the past. Time only moves in one direction.

Got it?

[Bantam 1]

Originally Posted by Autotune [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Yeah, you are complaining yet offer no solutions to what you are complaining about.

You are no better than a troll.

I don't agree with you a lot, but I think that a lot of people complain and moan.... but don't offer any real solutions.

I think the reason TMO wants to keep things status quo is because of how volitile raiding guilds are... ie soon as 1 starts to lose ground it collapses... also as I've read they had to fight pretty damn hard to get to be number 1.

If we force a server rotation... why join TMO? FE? IB?

Maybe something like a server rotation with a time limit.

ie if something is spawned more than X hours it becomes FFA.

Any solution would require some give and take... in this case - top end guilds would have to stop bat phoning to kill things asap and more casual guilds would have to mobilize quickly.

I think the top end guilds would benefit in terms of becoming more relaxed and encouraging more raiders to join the server.


As for me personally - I'd want to actually have a shot at raid mobs, but I got real life responsibilities also.... so this concept of "casuals not trying hard enough" is getting silly... it's a private server for a 14 yr old game... lets grow up a bit.

[Champion_Standing]

Originally Posted by Bantam 1 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If we force a server rotation... why join TMO? FE? IB?

Imagine how terrible the game would be if people just joined guilds because they liked playing with the people in them.

[Autotune]

Originally Posted by Champion_Standing [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Imagine how terrible the game would be if people just joined guilds because they liked playing with the people in them.

Why only have TMO stay as TMO, they have enough characters and alts to make several guilds and fill up rotation slots.

FE could probably do two guilds.

BDA, probably 3.

Rotations without some form of elitism will not ever work here. Staff will not enforce a server rotation and there are enough players who don't want it that they can easily stop one from ever taking off.

[Morgander]

Originally Posted by Autotune [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Why only have TMO stay as TMO, they have enough characters and alts to make several guilds and fill up rotation slots.

FE could probably do two guilds.

BDA, probably 3.

Rotations without some form of elitism will not ever work here. Staff will not enforce a server rotation and there are enough players who don't want it that they can easily stop one from ever taking off.

I'm not defending the idea, nor am I against it, but I have to point this out:

Say this came to fruition. You have a forced rotation. You have TMO splitting up into 4 guilds, FE into 2, BDA into 3...

Ok, so now TMO is getting 4 parts of a pie of 9 pieces. FE getting 2 of 9, and BDA 3 of 9.

All hypothetically of course, much assuming naturally.

But what's the big problem with that?

You have no superficial FTE rules being enforced. No GM intervention wondering who got the kill. No poop-socking required. Players can just log in and play the game for as long as they want on whichever characters they want, and just go to any given raid target when its their turn when it spawns.

Tell me the negatives, besides potentially getting less loot for a single guild.

Hell, some guilds might get MORE loot. TMO might even get more loot on a forced rotation system. I also added some ideas to the possibility of a rotation with some interesting rulesets. Even additional timer based rewards for guilds who are especially efficient. Please read that post.

Honestly, I see only positives with this. The only downside I really see (not saying there aren't some I do not see off of the top of my head right now) is that those who want to feel superior to everyone else because they "WON", can't feel that way anymore.

Boo hoo?

[Autotune]

Originally Posted by Morgander [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'm not defending the idea, nor am I against it, but I have to point this out:

Say this came to fruition. You have a forced rotation. You have TMO splitting up into 4 guilds, FE into 2, BDA into 3...

Ok, so now TMO is getting 4 parts of a pie of 9 pieces. FE getting 2 of 9, and BDA 3 of 9.

All hypothetically of course, much assuming naturally.

But what's the big problem with that?

You have no superficial FTE rules being enforced. No GM intervention wondering who got the kill. No poop-socking required. Players can just log in and play the game for as long as they want on whichever characters they want, and just go to any given raid target when its their turn when it spawns.

Tell me the negatives, besides potentially getting less loot for a single guild.

Hell, some guilds might get MORE loot. TMO might even get more loot on a forced rotation system. I also added some ideas to the possibility of a rotation with some interesting rulesets. Even additional timer based rewards for guilds who are especially efficient. Please read that post.

Honestly, I see only positives with this. The only downside I really see (not saying there aren't some I do not see off of the top of my head right now) is that those who want to feel superior to everyone else because they "WON", can't feel that way anymore.

Boo hoo?

The problem with this, is that now you have legit guilds who have to wait months for their turn to come up on the rotation.

TMO would take a months worth, or more, then have to wait months for their slot/s to roll back around, same for every other guild.

Now TMO goes from raiding every week to raiding a few months a year.

[Morgander]

Originally Posted by Autotune [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The problem with this, is that now you have legit guilds who have to wait months for their turn to come up on the rotation.

TMO would take a months worth, or more, then have to wait months for their slot/s to roll back around, same for every other guild.

Now TMO goes from raiding every week to raiding a few months a year.

Well we have:

Raid Mob Respawn Average
-------- ------- -------
Lord Nagafen 5-9 days 7 days
Lady Vox 5-9 days 7 days
Cazic Thule 5-9 days 7 days
Dracoliche 2 days 12 hours - 3 days 12 hours 3 days
Innoruuk 5-9 days 7 days
Maestro of Rancor 2-4 days 3 days
Talendor 5-9 days 7 days
Gorenaire 5-9 days 7 days
Severilous 5-9 days 7 days
Faydedar 6-8 days 7 days
Venril Sathir 5-9 days 7 days
Trakenon 2 days 6 hours - 3 days 18 hours 3 days
|Overking Bathezid | 2 hours
|Prince Selrach Di'zok| 2 hours
|Queen Velazul Di-zok | 2 hours
Druushk
Hoshkar
Nexona
Phara Dar
Silverwing
Xygoz
Plane of Sky repops
Plane of Fear repops
Plane of Hate repops

This gives us Lord Nagefen, Lady Vox, Cazic Thule, Innoruuk, Talendor,
Gorenaire, Severilous, Faydedar, and Venril Sathir spawning once per week
(that's 9 raid mobs), and Dracoliche, Maestro of Rancor, and Trakenon
spawning 2 times per week ((rounded down) that's 3 raid mobs).

That's 15 raid targets per week, excluding the chardok royals, the planer respawns, and all of the Veeshan's Peak dragons.

Even if there were 6 raid guilds that could kill all of these mobs without wiping, that would leave over 2 raid targets per week per guild, and that isn't how it would happen, because we still have the planer raid repops, the Chardok royals, epic fights not consisting of the aforementioned mobs, and the Veeshan Peak dragons.

Just assuming that the Veeshan's Peak dragons spawn once per week, that would leave us with 21 raid targets available per week. Even with 10 guilds who could kill all of these mobs, thus even be on a "rotation", you've still got 2 targets per guild, per week, and we're STILL even not considering the epic targets, Chardok royals, or planer respawns.

Now you see, from my perspective, all this is telling me is that many (maybe not all, but many) of the bias, self-titled "best" hardcore raiders who are against any idea of things like rotations, have a simple agenda: They want more than 2 raid targets a week. 'Or', they want all or most of them.

Now EVEN if we took some of my ideas into play. Say had a rotation but had certain raid targets timed and calculated by an automated system so the GM's didn't have to scrutinize it in detail else you lose your spot on the rotation for that mob for your next rotation, I bet you anything you would still only see about 2-3 guilds who would even make it on the rotation for most of these mobs, and I bet you that not even TMO would stay on the rotation for every single mob, every single time.

Go back to my prior idea post and give the fastest, most proficient guilds incentives (such as 2x the loot on a given raid mob for beating a super hard time), and you have a lot of incentive (I feel anyway) to actually desire a system that shares instead of monopolizes.

The difference here is mostly that the biggest and best raid guilds would still come out with the most reward, but those guilds who currently have about zero chance at even an opportunity with a given raid target, would now at least be able to compete a little bit.

Plus, I personally feel that raiding this way would just be less stressful from a time constraint point of view (from the lack of poop-socking), and would be more fun from a competitive point of view (because the competition is doing it as quickly as possible without even a single wipe).


And just for fun:
This page claims VP spawn timers set the named between 24 hours at one point, to 80 hours 53 minutes in an updated version of the zone.

http://www.tessmage.com/AllaClone/zo...de=spawngroups

[Autotune]

Originally Posted by Bantam 1 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I don't agree with you a lot, but I think that a lot of people complain and moan.... but don't offer any real solutions.

I think the reason TMO wants to keep things status quo is because of how volitile raiding guilds are... ie soon as 1 starts to lose ground it collapses... also as I've read they had to fight pretty damn hard to get to be number 1.

If we force a server rotation... why join TMO? FE? IB?

Maybe something like a server rotation with a time limit.

ie if something is spawned more than X hours it becomes FFA.

Any solution would require some give and take... in this case - top end guilds would have to stop bat phoning to kill things asap and more casual guilds would have to mobilize quickly.

I think the top end guilds would benefit in terms of becoming more relaxed and encouraging more raiders to join the server.


As for me personally - I'd want to actually have a shot at raid mobs, but I got real life responsibilities also.... so this concept of "casuals not trying hard enough" is getting silly... it's a private server for a 14 yr old game... lets grow up a bit.

I think the closest thing you'll get to a rotation on here, is TMO not mobilizing for targets. In the past, TMO has given up raid targets for the server to go after. However, the only way I would think they would do this is if the "second raiding guild" didn't go after those targets. Would obvious exclude VP raid targets and probably trakanon.

Only thing is, the last few times they did this, the server complained that it wasn't enough and that it was some sinister plot (seriously).

[Bantam 1]

Originally Posted by Autotune [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I think the closest thing you'll get to a rotation on here, is TMO not mobilizing for targets. In the past, TMO has given up raid targets for the server to go after. However, the only way I would think they would do this is if the "second raiding guild" didn't go after those targets. Would obvious exclude VP raid targets and probably trakanon.

Only thing is, the last few times they did this, the server complained that it wasn't enough and that it was some sinister plot (seriously).

I think you and I are on the same page on this one. I think the solution will most likely be TMO/IB/FE leaving stuff up come Velious or purposely talking to less hardcore guilds to give them shots at things which would encourage more new people to join the serve and raid. (IE better/more potential recruits).

Anyways hope this discussion goes somewhere.