Raiding in P1999 is nothing like raiding in classic.

[Autotune]

Originally Posted by Tasslehofp99 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You don't play anymore, nowadays TMO wipes regularly to dragons with 35+ players. I don't see how they could split their usual 40-50 player raid force and come away with more kill than they do now if they "split their force." Specifically if you figure into the equation that they will obviously go for Phara Dar first, which will take time considering hoshkar and silverwing would be up and in the way.


You are just talking nonsense really, if training was removed and simulated patch days happened regularly the server's raid scene would benefit immensely. It just seems TMO and any of their supporters are against any proposed changes that may make the competition more fair or ultimately any changes that possibly may take away from their weekly pixel count.

Only silverwing would have to die before TMO killed Phara Dar and I can tell you right now, no other guild is going to be able to do that.

TMO still has plenty of people and they always shine when the chips aren't in their favor, it is known.

Edit: Actually, I bet TMO could kill PD first with both Hosh and Silverwing up, now that I think about how they've done things in the past.

[Tasslehofp99]

Originally Posted by Autotune [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Only silverwing would have to die before TMO killed Phara Dar and I can tell you right now, no other guild is going to be able to do that.

TMO still has plenty of people and they always shine when the chips aren't in their favor, it is known.

There are also ways around Silverwing/Hoshkar that other VP-keyed guilds could use to move around VP without killing anything. You aren't looking at whats important, the raiding scene's health. Its suffering right now, and some simple changes could really bring it back and increase competition across the board.

I understand the dev's are focused on Velious at the moment but honestly releasing velious before addressing the raiding scene's flaws at this point would just be putting a bandaid over a huge wound that requires stitches. I don't really see what the issue is with removing training in VP, other than it would make it harder for TMO to lock down the zone. That's the only problem here, and the fact that I'm sure intentional training would still happen under the guise of "Oops, bad pathing" and GM's would be petitioned/annoyed more. That's another entire issue in itself though.

[Autotune]

Originally Posted by Tasslehofp99 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

There are also ways around Silverwing/Hoshkar that other VP-keyed guilds could use to move around VP without killing anything. You aren't looking at whats important, the raiding scene's health. Its suffering right now, and some simple changes could really bring it back and increase competition across the board.

I understand the dev's are focused on Velious at the moment but honestly releasing velious before addressing the raiding scene's flaws at this point would just be putting a bandaid over a huge wound that requires stitches. I don't really see what the issue is with removing training in VP, other than it would make it harder for TMO to lock down the zone. That's the only problem here, and the fact that I'm sure intentional training would still happen under the guise of "Oops, bad pathing" and GM's would be petitioned/annoyed more. That's another entire issue in itself though.

The raiding scene now is so much better than it was when TMO/IB were going at it that it's insane how much you guys don't see it. The only aspect is training in VP that you guys don't get (it's a GM decision to not want to deal with petitions in the zone). However, I seriously doubt any zone in Velious will have training allowed and you guys still sit around with your thumbs up your asses as if it's impossible to snag targets regularly now.

You have one guild to compete against which you've already claimed "wipes on the regular" and yet not a single other guild is gearing up for velious raiding? and why???? Oh, training is allowed in a zone that only 30 other people outside of TMO can even enter...

PS: Moving around VP and Killing raid targets are two different beasts.

[Tasslehofp99]

Originally Posted by Autotune [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The raiding scene now is so much better than it was when TMO/IB were going at it that it's insane how much you guys don't see it. The only aspect is training in VP that you guys don't get (it's a GM decision to not want to deal with petitions in the zone). However, I seriously doubt any zone in Velious will have training allowed and you guys still sit around with your thumbs up your asses as if it's impossible to snag targets regularly now.

You have one guild to compete against which you've already claimed "wipes on the regular" and yet not a single other guild is gearing up for velious raiding? and why???? Oh, training is allowed in a zone that only 30 other people outside of TMO can even enter...

You would be surprised how many keyed VP players are on this server and not in TMO, who are unwilling to waste hours of their precious time to fuck around training people. What does it matter what the raiding scene was like 2 years ago? We're talking about right here and now, and into the future moving forward.

By the way, there are already players pushing for training to be allowed in Ntov and Sleeper's tomb. So you may want to take that into consideration when wondering why so many people want to fix these problems now. We don't like training in VP because it isn't classic and has no place in Everquest raiding, and we don't want training to be allowed in velious. When I say we I mean those who support classic EQ raiding on p99 and want it to be as fair and competitive as possible.

[Autotune]

Originally Posted by Tasslehofp99 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You would be surprised how many keyed VP players are on this server and not in TMO, who are unwilling to waste hours of their precious time to fuck around training people. What does it matter what the raiding scene was like 2 years ago? We're talking about right here and now, and into the future moving forward.

By the way, there are already players pushing for training to be allowed in Ntov and Sleeper's tomb. So you may want to take that into consideration when wondering why so many people want to fix these problems now. We don't like training in VP because it isn't classic and has no place in Everquest raiding, and we don't want training to be allowed in velious. When I say we I mean those who support classic EQ raiding on p99 and want it to be as fair and competitive as possible.

You seriously can't be this damn stupid. It's not a player decision to why training is allowed in VP, it was never even a consideration on what players thought as to why it's allowed. Why the fuck would I take into consideration what a bunch of random nobodies want in zones and decisions that they have zero pull with.

I wouldn't be surprised either. Unlike you, I was there when people and guilds were getting keyed and I was there when nearly 50% of those characters were bought by TMO and I was there when a large amount of them left and who won't come back.

Removing Training from VP will just create another prevp raiding scene inside of VP. The GMs and staff see it and that's why training is allowed.

[Tasslehofp99]

Originally Posted by Autotune [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You seriously can't be this damn stupid. It's not a player decision to why training is allowed in VP, it was never even a consideration on what players thought as to why it's allowed. Why the fuck would I take into consideration what a bunch of random nobodies want in zones and decisions that they have zero pull with.

I wouldn't be surprised either. Unlike you, I was there when people and guilds were getting keyed and I was there when nearly 50% of those characters were bought by TMO and I was there when a large amount of them left and who won't come back.

Removing Training from VP will just create another prevp raiding scene inside of VP. The GMs and staff see it and that's why training is allowed.

Because the same people who support training being allowed in VP are those who want it to be allowed in NtoV/ST. Nilbog already stated that he would consider changing the rules regarding VP, while Sirken has stated he is against such rule changes. If a majority of the server would prefer classic rules in VP, and the only people who oppose such changes are those who are favored by the current rules, why would the rules not be changed?

Furthermore, do you think that its fair that VP's rules favor one guild over any others? I mean, at this point its fair to say that no guild can compete with TMO in VP. This isn't due to the fact that TMO is better geared, has more players with VP keys, and has had more practice/experience in VP..its simply due to training. You take out training, and you instantly increase competition INSIDE of VP and outside as well. There really isn't an argument against this other than the GM's not wanting to deal with petitions, but there already are tons of petitions dealing with raiding outside of VP.


It seems though that the main problem on p99 raiding is the rules, and the enforcement of them fairly and equally.

[Alarti0001]

Originally Posted by Tasslehofp99 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Because the same people who support training being allowed in VP are those who want it to be allowed in NtoV/ST. Nilbog already stated that he would consider changing the rules regarding VP, while Sirken has stated he is against such rule changes. If a majority of the server would prefer classic rules in VP, and the only people who oppose such changes are those who are favored by the current rules, why would the rules not be changed?

Furthermore, do you think that its fair that VP's rules favor one guild over any others? I mean, at this point its fair to say that no guild can compete with TMO in VP. This isn't due to the fact that TMO is better geared, has more players with VP keys, and has had more practice/experience in VP..its simply due to training. You take out training, and you instantly increase competition INSIDE of VP and outside as well. There really isn't an argument against this other than the GM's not wanting to deal with petitions, but there already are tons of petitions dealing with raiding outside of VP.


It seems though that the main problem on p99 raiding is the rules, and the enforcement of them fairly and equally.

In Summary: Tass is mad that there are mobs on P99 he can't poopsock.

[Autotune]

Originally Posted by Tasslehofp99 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Because the same people who support training being allowed in VP are those who want it to be allowed in NtoV/ST. Nilbog already stated that he would consider changing the rules regarding VP, while Sirken has stated he is against such rule changes. If a majority of the server would prefer classic rules in VP, and the only people who oppose such changes are those who are favored by the current rules, why would the rules not be changed?

Furthermore, do you think that its fair that VP's rules favor one guild over any others? I mean, at this point its fair to say that no guild can compete with TMO in VP. This isn't due to the fact that TMO is better geared, has more players with VP keys, and has had more practice/experience in VP..its simply due to training. You take out training, and you instantly increase competition INSIDE of VP and outside as well. There really isn't an argument against this other than the GM's not wanting to deal with petitions, but there already are tons of petitions dealing with raiding outside of VP.


It seems though that the main problem on p99 raiding is the rules, and the enforcement of them fairly and equally.

The top part, you answered your own question.

second part, fair has nothing to do with it. Not once has any GM said the rules were made to be "fair". However, the fair you are talking about is relative. What fair is to you, may not be fair to another. Fair in the simplest form, however, is having the rules in VP apply to everyone equally, regardless, and in that regard VP is fair.

VP rules apply to everyone. The only reason they favor TMO is because a guild that was equal to them left. TMO was ahead of you then and they are ahead of you now. You're definition/view of fair is only to move the bar in your favor.

Do not mistake this as me wanting things one way or the other. Like you said, I don't play (raid) anymore. However, you going around implying that rules are in place simply for the advantage of a single guild is annoying, especially since it has been stated several times why the zone is the way it is.

There are tons of petitions outside where things are less hectic and you want to multiply that for GMs, yet you can't understand why they don't want to take on that work load.

[Tasslehofp99]

Originally Posted by Autotune [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

PS: Moving around VP and Killing raid targets are two different beasts.

I'm fairly certain if training wasn't allowed you could just move your raid force right into whatever dragon's lair you want to kill and engage them on the spawn point. The only reason classic VP crawl tactics aren't used on p99 is because of stupid sanctioned training. On live, we literally crawled through VP as a raid and moved wherever we wanted to go, or used a mage with faction to start CoTH link. Here, you can't do things like that due to training. VP was a whole different beast on live than it is on here. VP on p99 is nothing like VP on live, and a few simple rule changes could go a long way in terms of making it "more classic."