Is the raid scene really that bad?

[deneauth]

The point I was trying to get across before is haven't we as a community of players morphed the raid scene to be what it is now? The developers gave us a set of rules which we choose to follow or not. When the rules are broken and the guilty are discovered punishments are administered whether they are just or not. The developers have given us a classic experience and we as a community have molded the raid scene into what it is now which as Rogean himself has pointed out is very classic. I am okay with the way things are now because just like on live I am a casual player, I have seen more endgame content on this server than I ever did on live, but if leadership from raid level guilds got together and came up with a plan, then implemented it, things could be different we do have the power to do so as a community! Its what I choose to believe and I truly feel it can be done.

[Brut]

Originally Posted by deneauth [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The point I was trying to get across before is haven't we as a community of players morphed the raid scene to be what it is now? The developers gave us a set of rules which we choose to follow or not. When the rules are broken and the guilty are discovered punishments are administered whether they are just or not. The developers have given us a classic experience and we as a community have molded the raid scene into what it is now which as Rogean himself has pointed out is very classic. I am okay with the way things are now because just like on live I am a casual player, I have seen more endgame content on this server than I ever did on live, but if leadership from raid level guilds got together and came up with a plan, then implemented it, things could be different we do have the power to do so as a community! Its what I choose to believe and I truly feel it can be done.

Not really, the rules have only changed as per dev whims from server's early days all the way to what it is now. There was a rotation early on, then there wasn't, then variance was added, then there were rules about 15 men sitting on spawn points camping dragons shouting to tell the other raid they're not afk, then there wasnt that, then there was frapsquest and guild suspensions, slight alterations to rules like not pulling inny to zoneline, then those got turned around, then there were poopsocks for end of window mobs, then there were extended windows to rid the poopsocks, yada yada yada. Pretty much all of these consist of playerbase stretching every new rule as far as they could (ie. the 15man sockfests was the ridiculous answer to 2-4day random mob windows) until GMs would step in to change things.

The thing is this server's guild leaderships dont really ever sit down and think "wow this is stupid" and fix the idiocy on their own. They keep the stupidity going until one of them gives up and the other can go on to farm everything.

Only instance I can recall where the top guilds got together and resolved anything on their own was a brief trak/VP rotation somewhere along the line. Unless I've missed some behind the scenes details and a GM forced them to do so.

[falkun]

Originally Posted by Brut [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Only instance I can recall where the top guilds got together and resolved anything on their own was a brief trak/VP rotation somewhere along the line. Unless I've missed some behind the scenes details and a GM forced them to do so.

You are missing the Ragefire agreement. But then TMO's rank and file decided not to abide by an agreement their leadership agreed to and helped establish:
[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

But once that drama settled down and the Ragefire agreement had a few cycles in, it was the best agreement this server has ever reached. The next closest thing would be the Sky rotation.

[Autotune]

Originally Posted by falkun [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You are missing the Ragefire agreement. But then TMO's rank and file decided not to abide by an agreement their leadership agreed to and helped establish:
[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

But once that drama settled down and the Ragefire agreement had a few cycles in, it was the best agreement this server has ever reached. The next closest thing would be the Sky rotation.

Zeelot is rank and file?

[falkun]

Originally Posted by Autotune [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Zeelot is rank and file?

Is Zeelot one of those TMO sitting at RF? I don't know what alts he may have (access to). Zeelot delegated Xeli the task of establishing and agreeing to that rotation, did Xeli not inform her members in that screenshot about the rotation?

[Autotune]

Originally Posted by falkun [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Is Zeelot one of those TMO sitting at RF? I don't know what alts he may have (access to). Zeelot delegated Xeli the task of establishing and agreeing to that rotation, did Xeli not inform her members in that screenshot about the rotation?

Zeelot was on Jaed and he was the one that said was pissed at the deal Xeli made (not a chick, was a dude btw).

It was the rank and file (me, elethia, xasten, and a few others) that changed Zeelot's decision to break the retarded deal that was made. Pretty sure every time Xeli made a deal on TMO's behalf it was horrible for TMO, but we stuck with them every time (might not have liked it or wanted to, but we did).

Anyhow, you can keep trying to bash TMO for upholding their deals.

[Medowin]

Originally Posted by deneauth [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The point I was trying to get across before is haven't we as a community of players morphed the raid scene to be what it is now? The developers gave us a set of rules which we choose to follow or not. When the rules are broken and the guilty are discovered punishments are administered whether they are just or not. The developers have given us a classic experience and we as a community have molded the raid scene into what it is now which as Rogean himself has pointed out is very classic. I am okay with the way things are now because just like on live I am a casual player, I have seen more endgame content on this server than I ever did on live, but if leadership from raid level guilds got together and came up with a plan, then implemented it, things could be different we do have the power to do so as a community! Its what I choose to believe and I truly feel it can be done.

Is one guild controlling and monopolizing all of end-game content in the entire game really the classic experience?


Something tells me no.

[arsenalpow]

Originally Posted by Brut [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Not really, the rules have only changed as per dev whims from server's early days all the way to what it is now. There was a rotation early on, then there wasn't, then variance was added, then there were rules about 15 men sitting on spawn points camping dragons shouting to tell the other raid they're not afk, then there wasnt that, then there was frapsquest and guild suspensions, slight alterations to rules like not pulling inny to zoneline, then those got turned around, then there were poopsocks for end of window mobs, then there were extended windows to rid the poopsocks, yada yada yada. Pretty much all of these consist of playerbase stretching every new rule as far as they could (ie. the 15man sockfests was the ridiculous answer to 2-4day random mob windows) until GMs would step in to change things.

The thing is this server's guild leaderships dont really ever sit down and think "wow this is stupid" and fix the idiocy on their own. They keep the stupidity going until one of them gives up and the other can go on to farm everything.

Only instance I can recall where the top guilds got together and resolved anything on their own was a brief trak/VP rotation somewhere along the line. Unless I've missed some behind the scenes details and a GM forced them to do so.

The absolute only reason there hasn't been a solution to the endgame is because TMO does not give a fuck. TMO's attitude is that if someone wants a piece of the pie then they can attempt to take it. That was clear at the guild leadership summit. They didn't even bother to send a rep that could actually commit to a decision. Then when socking turned into a /rand for the chance to engage first it was suddenly overruled when TMO lost the first handful of rolls.

The devs chose this ruleset and TMO adapted. It will always be like this until the devs make a change or until the server bands together or something but realistically the only people that care enough to dump hundreds of hours a week into tracking and mobilizing at every single hour of the day is TMO. I'm not sure if that shows how awesome they are or if it's kinda sad.

[Autotune]

Originally Posted by arsenalpow [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The absolute only reason there hasn't been a solution to the endgame is because TMO does not give a fuck. TMO's attitude is that if someone wants a piece of the pie then they can attempt to take it. That was clear at the guild leadership summit. They didn't even bother to send a rep that could actually commit to a decision. Then when socking turned into a /rand for the chance to engage first it was suddenly overruled when TMO lost the first handful of rolls.

The devs chose this ruleset and TMO adapted. It will always be like this until the devs make a change or until the server bands together or something but realistically the only people that care enough to dump hundreds of hours a week into tracking and mobilizing at every single hour of the day is TMO. I'm not sure if that shows how awesome they are or if it's kinda sad.

TMO shouldn't give a fuck. Shame IB left the server, if they hadn't, none of you would even be here commenting about changes to the raid scene. You guys just sat quietly farming planar gear and doing 4 islands of sky up until IB left and VD disbanded.

I tried several times to get other guilds to join in the raid scene, back before IB left, and every time it was met with "OH hell yea, that sounds awesome" and those guilds did absolutely nothing to actually join in.

It's quite clear that none of the other guilds want to put any effort into actually getting targets. You simply want to show up to a predetermined time to take out a predetermined target and acquire loot.

You all should be thanking TMO that IB left so you could finally openly bitch and moan about the raid scene and how only one guild is dominating it. If it wasn't for TMO, you'd still be happy farming planar alt gear.

[quido]

Originally Posted by arsenalpow [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Then when socking turned into a /rand for the chance to engage first it was suddenly overruled when TMO lost the first handful of rolls..

The /random at a certain point in the window thing was Sirken's suggestion that everyone agreed to try out for a week. It was dumb as hell, but it's not like it was prematurely abandoned simply because BDA showed up for some freebies.