Leapfrogging

[Supreme]

Originally Posted by Rogean [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

So I'm curious.

People who played live back in the day, on servers that did NOT have forced raid mob rotations, how did the GM's there handle a situation where Guild A is clearing trash towards a raid boss and is completely leapfrogged by Guild B which rushes to engage the mob when Guild A sits down to med. Obviously this is one large reason we are hesitant to go with a first to engage policy, but I'm curious to hear the answers and suggestions.

Also keep in mind there may frequently be situations where two guilds start clearing at the same time, leapfrogging eachother.

They did nothing. One group one kill..one loot. Solusek Ro was a good example so was Nameless. If your group got the kill you got the loot. End of discussion. Guilds would usually wait for them to either wipe then clean up the mess or engage and hope their DPS group got the XP.

At some point sony would recognize that having a server with TONS of raid worthy players and guilds was not financially effective and thus created other servers with /movelog to alleviate the problem.

I am sure that if GMs/Sony would have conceptualized the idea of "instancing" they would have implemented it pre-GOD era to retain player base as well. IMHO.

[Kraun]

The GM's did nothing on the servers i played. Guild A cleared to Trak then would med .Guild B would just rush past and engage first. GM would tell Guild A tough luck and stop spamming petitions or your all banned.

[Starklen]

You dealt with it the ski mask way.

[apollyon arali]

Not knowing how many guilds are able to kill cazic on 1999 etc...

I recall on my server only 2 guilds were able to do ubermob A...lets say Trak for example. They were able to work out a rotation. Guild A gets Trak, if they failed that night (agreed upon time to kill OR number of attempts)..then Guild B gets to kill. Then the next pop would be Guild B since Guild A failed thier attempt. Then Guild A again..etc etc.

yard trash was first come first serve in between spawns. Of course when Trak popped for example, then the guild who was up for that kill cleared trash too.

anyways..takes a little coopreration and agreements between guilds.

[Goobles]

Originally Posted by Rogean [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

What if a guild starts clearing trash with only a single group while it waits for the rest of it's members to show up?

I don't think you remember the beginning of this entire shit blizzard when it started with IB/Trans. Trans camped Naggy for 12 hours, and IB was in full force, heading to Naggy and Trans had like 3 groups. So we(IB) cleared all the trash, and they brought more reinforcements after we cleared the path. They got 3 attempts to bring Naggy down, since Wenai told us that if we engaged we would be banned.

----

Now, the best way to handle this bullshit is to say that a capable force must be present and active to claim a mob or a zone. That's how it was handled on SoD. Oh, and poopsocking sucks. 3day spawn timer with 12 hour variance would be a great idea. I know it's not the 'classic' 7 day spawn timer, but neither is the current spawn variance.

[Bubbles]

lol we're barely to page 4, and Rogean's already sorry he asked, I bet [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[Jeice]

There was zero enforcement, guilds would fight over the mobs and try to get there first. Leapfroging was sometimes part of Classic and thats something people knew and expected. Normally though if a guild was in doing something and another guild showed up they would sit and wait. If the guild wiped they would go steal the kill for obvious reasons, sometimes help the wiped guild do a CR... There was no rule on "saving" a target or requiring players to camp in a zone with 15 players for 48 hours so that they can be guaranteed the boss. I have yet to raid on P99, but from the rules I see and how certain things are dealt with I have to say its not close to the feel of playing real Classic. The whole thing of raiding back then was argueing with other guilds, making friendships with some and having pacts. The GM's did not play favorites or ban people for silly things, they let the kids play.

[Anaiyah]

I think the main point is getting a bit lost here. The methods of working out kills was usually dynamic. GMs here should not aim to provide a static ruleset for these situations, they should realize that an equilibrium will emerge naturally so long as players have freedom.

EQ was never pretty and nice. Servers were not havens of cooperation between high end guilds, however, mutual agreements ALWAYS emerged naturally.

I find your example of leapfrogging to be pretty unrealistic. Only a guild full of utter retards (literally) is going to see another guild zone in and continue just clearing trash then take a med break at the boss. That never happened in live, so it shouldnt be an issue that you worry about. What would happen is they would stop clearing trash, and a standoff of who is going to be oom and be clearing trash would begin...of course followed by the guilds that arent full of retards coming to SOME kind of arrangement.

Player freedom and responsibility is the only thing gms need to worry about with raid rules, especially if this is an emulation of classic.