Soulfire

[khanable]

Originally Posted by Frieza_Prexus [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Well said, but the issue between classic and not classic and what to do about it is really blurred by the emergent gameplay both here and on live. Where we should land on the "what to do about it question" is up for debate, and there's not a perfect answer. No matter what is done in any particular situation, both sides for or against a particular change can validly jump up and down while screaming not classic. It's almost a complete impasse. I think the most reasonable situation is what I mentioned earlier which Falkun echoed (though I think he misread my post; I was agreeing with you!). All classic mechanics should be reproduced in their entirety, and changes should be made only under two circumstances:

1) It's an obvious bug or unintended/emergent gameplay that does NOT add value to the game then (1999), or now. Examples being the Paladin epic 1 million damage dot, the Wavecrasher bug, and being able to forage dropped loot in certain zones. All of these are clear-cut situations where the developers intent would be ascertainable with almost absolute certainty had they known of the issue at the time.

OR

2) The problem here is such that it effectively prevents any modicum of classic EQ, and to leave the situation as it is would render the situation more non-classic than it would otherwise be.

These are both very difficult standards, you either have to know with 99% certainty what the Devs would have done, or you have to prove extreme detriment to the gameplay of the server. Note that the standard is the gameplay and not the effect it has on the interactions of players. These are both rare and difficult situations that can occur, but should be met with caution. That's why I think that there is a presumption that the server should strictly adhere to the timeline, and that any deviation must first overcome a presumption that strict adherence is in the server's best interest.

Many of the supposed problems are not really problems at all. For example, SoulFire is currently used in two fights: Trak and VS. Trak is, in my opinion, not at issue because of the SoulFires. Sure, they help, but pulling off a Trak kill that otherwise wouldn't happen without them is actually a very rare and specific circumstance. SoulFire is also used to tank VS while your crew assembles. VS doesn't proc often enough in my opinion, and that fix would be more than enough to make SF tanking that much more difficult. SoulFire wouldn't be as much of an issue if the server were more classic ironically.

Might SoulFire one day be a problem? Absolutely, it could perhaps trivialize some gameplay, then again perhaps not. However, no matter what happens, the burden to change it is on the ones requesting it. That burden has yet to be met in this particular case.

Hold the horn

There was a point in time where the Paladin epic was bugged and would do a 1 million damage dot?

what

[Frieza_Prexus]

Originally Posted by khanable [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Hold the horn

There was a point in time where the Paladin epic was bugged and would do a 1 million damage dot?

what

http://www.tski.co.jp/baldio/patch/20001121.html]

Originally Posted by 11/21/2000 Patch

Fixed the Paladin Epic Quest reward, which was procing a spell that would do around one million points of damage if left to its own devices

[Samoht]

Originally Posted by Frieza_Prexus [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Might SoulFire one day be a problem? Absolutely, it could perhaps trivialize some gameplay, then again perhaps not. However, no matter what happens, the burden to change it is on the ones requesting it. That burden has yet to be met in this particular case.

you're wrong because

Originally Posted by Frieza_Prexus [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

1) It's an obvious bug or unintended/emergent gameplay that does NOT add value to the game then (1999), or now. Examples being the Paladin epic 1 million damage dot, the Wavecrasher bug, and being able to forage dropped loot in certain zones. All of these are clear-cut situations where the developers intent would be ascertainable with almost absolute certainty had they known of the issue at the time.

soulfire was eventually changed to only work for paladins. it just wasn't in the timeline of this server (post luclin), and i would assume that's because the abuse didn't become blatant until then.

there are a lot of situations here where it's completely trivializing encounters to the point where bringing a healer is optional. people like tecmos are blowing thousands of plat to solo content that otherwise wouldn't be remotely possible without use of things like soulfire.

soulfire is clearly being abused here and should be nerfed in advance of the timeline.

shit's only going to get worse in velius.

[khanable]

Originally Posted by Frieza_Prexus [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

http://www.tski.co.jp/baldio/patch/20001121.html]

Paladins not classic

I demand classic paladin 1 million damage epic

[Frieza_Prexus]

Originally Posted by Samoht [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

shit's only going to get worse in velius.

Some of the smartest players had already quested SoulFires for themselves many times during Velious. Furor brought it to the front of the discussion when he had one the first time he tanked down the AoW and posted about it.

I agree that it's being abused, but I'm not certain that the abuse is so clear cut that it absolutely demands a nerf. The only real use I see for it in Velious is that it'll be used in tank transitions. Even then, if things go bad on a really nasty fight it'll eat a lot of charges, and each guild will be limited in its use of the item.

It's possible, that it will need a nerf; I do not contest that. However, all that has been presented so far is conjecture. There as been very little in-depth analysis of where and how it will be used to give an unprecedented and unfair advantage in a way that demands a change.

[Ele]

If people want to spend their time farming Soulfires while Velious content is out, more power to them I say.

[Samoht]

Originally Posted by Ele [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If people want to spend their time farming Soulfires while Velious content is out, more power to them I say.

what's so hard about the quest? a new soulfire enters circulation around every 12 hours. how many more can be made between now and velius?

[fastboy21]

Originally Posted by Ele [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If people want to spend their time farming Soulfires while Velious content is out, more power to them I say.

One of the problems with the emerging game play on p1999 is that you have all the time in the world to do stuff like this.

I'm not suggesting that it is necessarily a problem (or, if it is a problem that I have a solution for it) but the slow (and eventually) static nature of the server makes these types of things play out differently than they did on live.

[Ele]

Originally Posted by Samoht [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

what's so hard about the quest? a new soulfire enters circulation around every 12 hours. how many more can be made between now and velius?

Nothing, just a time sink and some running around once you have the faction. Probably hundreds, but limited to one per character. People can stack up reapers of the dead though. However, once you use it, then it needs to be quested again. I really don't see people burning through these each week for Velious mobs and being able to recoup an entire raid's worth by the next raid.

Might the first week see a burn through of content? Sure. Same thing happened on Fippy/Vulak. People are prepared and ready and know where to go.

These issues will be lessened on a fresh server with proper timeline.

[fastboy21]

Originally Posted by Ele [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

These issues will be lessened on a fresh server with proper timeline.

Exactly. However, no such server or plans for one exists.