A Bard's Tale

[t0lkien]

Originally Posted by Flamewraith [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I have nothing against bards (except that I really don't think it's a very useful class in groups) but all I ever see most of the bards here do is complain about how much they get picked on...

Wait... what? Bards shine in groups. That's a core part of their design. Either you or the Bards you've played with are doing it wrong.

Re. the kiting thing, some players are self-entitled douchebags too and jump at the chance to be angry and nasty at anyone. It isn't always related to justice, it's just general surliness. However on the specific instance of OT, I can understand people getting annoyed. The PLing going on there is ridiculous. I spent a lot of time AoE kiting in LOIO and if there was a group I kept away from their area. Heck, often I joined them. It's simple courtesy. I haven't had one nagative /ooc comment yet.

Pulling half the zone to low HP kite or PL some lazy alt (why the fudge are you playing classic EQ if you want to be PLed) is obnoxious IMO and is a broken mechanic and by definition an exploit, and I won't do it. Having said that, honestly, players upset by it need to stay away from OT. It's not going to change.

[Gadwen]

Originally Posted by t0lkien [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Wait... what? Bards shine in groups. That's a core part of their design. Either you or the Bards you've played with are doing it wrong.

Re. the kiting thing, some players are self-entitled douchebags too and jump at the chance to be angry and nasty at anyone. It isn't always related to justice, it's just general surliness. However on the specific instance of OT, I can understand people getting annoyed. The PLing going on there is ridiculous. I spent a lot of time AoE kiting in LOIO and if there was a group I kept away from their area. Heck, often I joined them. It's simple courtesy. I haven't had one nagative /ooc comment yet.

Pulling half the zone to low HP kite or PL some lazy alt (why the fudge are you playing classic EQ if you want to be PLed) is obnoxious IMO and is a broken mechanic and by definition an exploit, and I won't do it. Having said that, honestly, players upset by it need to stay away from OT. It's not going to change.

Unfortunately this concept eludes a lot of players.

[Flamewraith]

Originally Posted by t0lkien [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Wait... what? Bards shine in groups. That's a core part of their design. Either you or the Bards you've played with are doing it wrong.

Re. the kiting thing, some players are self-entitled douchebags too and jump at the chance to be angry and nasty at anyone. It isn't always related to justice, it's just general surliness. However on the specific instance of OT, I can understand people getting annoyed. The PLing going on there is ridiculous. I spent a lot of time AoE kiting in LOIO and if there was a group I kept away from their area. Heck, often I joined them. It's simple courtesy. I haven't had one nagative /ooc comment yet.

Pulling half the zone to low HP kite or PL some lazy alt is obnoxious IMO and is a broken mechanic and by definition an exploit, and I won't do it. Having said that, honestly, players need to stay away from OT. It's not going to change.

Bards are the jack of all trades but master of none. Meaning they aren't GREAT at anything. They do shitty dps, they have shitty regens, and they have half assed mezes and lulls. Having a bard is like adding tape to something not entirely finished, they are fillers for a slot when nothing else is available. Again I have nothing against them, if I'm missing something, and a bard is available, I'd take him over nothing [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] Now as for a ranger.......

[t0lkien]

Originally Posted by Flamewraith [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Bards are the jack of all trades but master of none. Meaning they aren't GREAT at anything. They do shitty dps, they have shitty regens, and they have half assed mezes and lulls. Having a bard is like adding tape to something not entirely finished, they are fillers for a slot when nothing else is available. Again I have nothing against them, if I'm missing something, and a bard is available, I'd take him over nothing [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] Now as for a ranger.......

Don't want to derail this thread, but people did the numbers years ago (many more times than once) and apart from things they bring to the table that can't be easily quantified, just pure DPS increase from having a Bard in your group is almost on a par with a Rogue. That doesn't take into account the utility they bring which has the result of speeding up XP generally, and making a group more solid, and flexible.

Mind you, this wasn't in classic which doesn't have the stacking line of Bard overhaste songs, and I think took into account the Bard epic. Even so, a well played Bard holds their own in a group - so much so SOE started nerfing them later on. It's a busy class to play well though, I'm not gonna lie.

P.S. I can't really comment on the "half-assed" statement because apart from missing the point I think because it all stacks anyway, I do fine as main CC, mana battery, and regen-er, along with haster and slow/snarer when there's no Shaman (and even when there is to cover resists), so don't know what else to say.

[Vianna]

Originally Posted by t0lkien [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Don't want to derail this thread, but people did the numbers years ago (many more times than once) and apart from things they bring to the table that can't be easily quantified, just pure DPS increase from having a Bard in your group is almost on a par with a Rogue. That doesn't take into account the utility they bring which has the result of speeding up XP generally, and making a group more solid, and flexible.

Mind you, this wasn't in classic which doesn't have the stacking line of Bard overhaste songs, and I think took into account the Bard epic. Even so, a well played Bard holds their own in a group - so much so SOE started nerfing them later on. It's a busy class to play well though, I'm not gonna lie.

P.S. I can't really comment on the "half-assed" statement because apart from missing the point I think because it all stacks anyway, I do fine as main CC, mana battery, and regen-er, along with haster and slow/snarer when there's no Shaman (and even when there is to cover resists), so don't know what else to say.

Bards are awesome in groups....Stacking mana songs=Less down time=More Pulls..On top of just that good bards can lock down 3 to 4 adds with mez(sometimes more) in emergencies. That isn't getting into the other songs they have at their disposal that helps groups in a big way. I imagine he had experience with quite a few bad bards.

[Trouble]

After like level 8 ae kiting was already a pain in the ass but I did it to level up fast. Dungeon crawling with a bard especially in seb where no one else wants to pull cuz of casters is tons of fun and really makes you bring every tool you have to the workbench if you want to do well and be remembered.

Haste is a solid 45% and with most people having haste items it puts you up there by cap. As far as regen is concerned to whoever posted about it, bards have the best mana regen that extends to other players and in the same song have a health regen that's maybe 2hp less than regrowth if they're playing strings and can still stack other health regen songs on top of it, though I usually don't stop to put on strings unless requested, which isn't often if you're pulling singles to keep cleric mana up. Also, personally I think you're wrong about our lull being ghetto. Maybe it's the most reliable in the game? Might not last as long but gets resisted less. Bards are gonna be able to split a room of 5 casters with generally way less problems than another pulling class.

My only gripe, which is minor, with the class is the charm takes mana, which after pulling for so long eventually wears your mana down even with the piddly mana cost, if you're like me and pull, then generally go grab a charm target to break it when the last target goes down.

Anyway, just thought I'd talk about the other aspects of this class that some seem to miss out on when they just see us running circles, which isn't easy either especially when you're soloing. Try it. The easy factor comes in when there's a duo or ae snare.

Back to your thread!

[zanderklocke]

Originally Posted by Flamewraith [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Bards are the jack of all trades but master of none. Meaning they aren't GREAT at anything. They do shitty dps, they have shitty regens, and they have half assed mezes and lulls. Having a bard is like adding tape to something not entirely finished, they are fillers for a slot when nothing else is available. Again I have nothing against them, if I'm missing something, and a bard is available, I'd take him over nothing [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] Now as for a ranger.......

Two things that no class can surpass bard on. One, bards are 100% necessary on raids for resists because their resist buffs are off the charts high. Two, they are also the fastest class to travel across zones in the game; therefore, they are needed to pull outdoor raid targets (dragons).

I would argue that bards in an exp group can actually pull better than monks in some dungeons, assuming that the bard is skilled.

[cs616]

Originally Posted by Flamewraith [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Bards are the jack of all trades but master of none. Meaning they aren't GREAT at anything. They do shitty dps, they have shitty regens, and they have half assed mezes and lulls. Having a bard is like adding tape to something not entirely finished, they are fillers for a slot when nothing else is available. Again I have nothing against them, if I'm missing something, and a bard is available, I'd take him over nothing [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] Now as for a ranger.......

You sir are woefully misinformed.