So what's there to do in Velious anyway?

[Gadwen]

Originally Posted by porigromus [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It is the way they did it. Books you click on sitting around the world that teleport you to some big floating city in the sky? Books lined up and down the walls? It was cheap, ugly, and a quick fix that didn't mesh well with the original wonderful world.

But nothing stopped you from running right past that book and traveling on foot.

You can trivialize your travels even in classic. Like i said before, porting and running with a sow/lev isn't exactly a challenging or immersive experience.

[Millburn]

Originally Posted by Gadwen [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

But nothing stopped you from running right past that book and traveling on foot.

You can trivialize your travels even in classic. Like i said before, porting and running with a sow/lev isn't exactly a challenging or immersive experience.

You can also get up 6 hours before work and walk there every day instead of using your car. We don't though (for the most part) and because of that to a degree our small town communities are more spread out across our regions. It's all fine and dandy to say it's all on the individual not to do something but opportunity cost is a real thing.

[Gadwen]

Originally Posted by Millburn [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You can also get up 6 hours before work and walk there every day instead of using your car. We don't though (for the most part) and because of that to a degree our small town communities are more spread out across our regions. It's all fine and dandy to say it's all on the individual not to do something but opportunity cost is a real thing.

When the opportunity you are looking for is non-trivial methods of traveling not using the books sounds like fantastic plan.

How you experience this game is up to you. You can trivialize the entire game in its current state if you are so inclined, and many players do.

[Atmas]

Missed a few pages in the middle of this thread but I am going to mention incase no one else has, the books did not come out with Luclin. They came with PoP. I wasn't really a fan of them being a wizard, they cut into my translocation revenues. However, I didn't mind PoP as a whole and I didn't mind the Nexus scions and ports that I think came with Luclin. Those ports were only every 15 minutes and depending on where you wanted to go it could take up to 30 minutes just to get the closest ports and then run more.

The thing about the books is it killed a lot of interaction as far as talking with people to get ports. Also making travel that easy for anyone really makes the world feel smaller. One of the things I really hated about EQ2 was that everything was just a bell click away.

Quick recap of other thread items. I think AA's were awesome. They gave you a reason to play a character more and let you advance your character in interesting ways. I don't think they broke any classes, just cause they allowed bards to do pulling doesn't mean that monks no longer did. Also a group of wizards manaburning mobs that were 2 expansions old was not a big deal. You could form a high end tank and spank group to kill Kunark mobs. Manaburn was not practical for progression Luclin or even Velious mobs. Ssra was awesome, VT was boring as hell but loot was nice. I liked a lot of the ideas of the zones like the Grey, didn't really have strong feelings about the cats.

[Hobie819]

For everyone saying it was a time sink - what isn't a time sink in classic? Leveling is a HUGE time sink but we don't advocate for that to be easier. Tradeskills? Huge time sink. Selling in EC? huge time sink. Taking ports out of the game because it was a "huge time sink" justifies you to play another game because if one thing is removed for being a time sink, every time sink should be removed.

Time sinks are meant to take a lot of time for a reward. Take the time to level tradeskills? You can make cool things. Take the time to level? you can be mower powerful and see more aspects of the game. Take the time to run or port? You can get to somewhere to explore, or level your character.

Like it or not, classic EQ revolves around everything being a time sink. It is one of the major complaints about the newer MMORPG's - everything is too easy.

You can't have it both ways - if you want the game to remain challenging, you cannot remove the time-sinks. If you want it to be trivialized, you may as well play WoW or any other number of MMORPG's on the market.

[Gadwen]

Originally Posted by Hobie819 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

For everyone saying it was a time sink - what isn't a time sink in classic? Leveling is a HUGE time sink but we don't advocate for that to be easier. Tradeskills? Huge time sink. Selling in EC? huge time sink. Taking ports out of the game because it was a "huge time sink" justifies you to play another game because if one thing is removed for being a time sink, every time sink should be removed.

Time sinks are meant to take a lot of time for a reward. Take the time to level tradeskills? You can make cool things. Take the time to level? you can be mower powerful and see more aspects of the game. Take the time to run or port? You can get to somewhere to explore, or level your character.

Like it or not, classic EQ revolves around everything being a time sink. It is one of the major complaints about the newer MMORPG's - everything is too easy.

You can't have it both ways - if you want the game to remain challenging, you cannot remove the time-sinks. If you want it to be trivialized, you may as well play WoW or any other number of MMORPG's on the market.

Taking the boat is a time sink. Getting a port is a means to avoid that time sink.

PLing and twinking are means of avoiding the time sink of leveling and camping gear.

Players worked their asses off trying to figure out ways to avoid time sinks and tedious aspects of gameplay, and they still do it today on this server. Look at how many people buy characters to avoid leveling them, or buy PLs to avoid the grind, or roll twinks with a fungi and Cof so they dominate everything they encounter for 45-55 levels. When it comes down to it, most people want it easy. SOE watched how players behaved and they were successful when they made the changes that made the game easier...it brought more people in.

Don't get me wrong, I love classic EQ and I would rather be here than anywhere else. The changes luclin and PoP brought to game were embraced by more people than classic EQ was, and observing the average player is where they got most of their ideas.

[TarukShmaruk]

Originally Posted by Gadwen [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Taking the boat is a time sink. Getting a port is a means to avoid that time sink.

PLing and twinking are means of avoiding the time sink of leveling and camping gear.

Players worked their asses off trying to figure out ways to avoid time sinks and tedious aspects of gameplay, and they still do it today on this server. Look at how many people buy characters to avoid leveling them, or buy PLs to avoid the grind, or roll twinks with a fungi and Cof so they dominate everything they encounter for 45-55 levels. When it comes down to it, most people want it easy. SOE watched how players behaved and they were successful when they made the changes that made the game easier...it brought more people in.

Don't get me wrong, I love classic EQ and I would rather be here than anywhere else. The changes luclin and PoP brought to game were embraced by more people than classic EQ was, and observing the average player is where they got most of their ideas.

EQ was top dog and MMOs were gaining popularity. It's inaccurate to claim that luclin/pop-era popularity was because of luclin changes.

That said, I loved everything about PoP except the books.

And whoever said they wanted books to funnel people into new content - that's a ridiculous claim - PoP was for high levels only. There was no new content to be had for anyone under level 40.

Look at how many people buy characters to avoid leveling them, or buy PLs to avoid the grind, or roll twinks with a fungi and Cof so they dominate everything they encounter for 45-55 levels. When it comes down to it, most people want it easy. SOE watched how players behaved and they were successful when they made the changes that made the game easier...it brought more people in.

People twink because it's fun and it's within the game mechanics. People enjoy being able to game the system - that doesn't mean the population wants to be able to walk up to an NPC and hail them for +50 levels. There are servers like that and do you know what their population is?

The point of all this discussion is that the there has to be a balance around the innate hedonism of gamers for the good of the game. Just because I want the ability to rez myself (or not lose XP), to fly everywhere, and to reduce all downtime doesn't mean it's good for the game.

[Gadwen]

Originally Posted by TarukShmaruk [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

EQ was top dog and MMOs were gaining popularity. It's inaccurate to claim that luclin/pop-era popularity was because of luclin changes.

That said, I loved everything about PoP except the books.

And whoever said they wanted books to funnel people into new content - that's a ridiculous claim - PoP was for high levels only. There was no new content to be had for anyone under level 40.




People twink because it's fun and it's within the game mechanics. People enjoy being able to game the system - that doesn't mean the population wants to be able to walk up to an NPC and hail them for +50 levels. There are servers like that and do you know what their population is?

The point of all this discussion is that the there has to be a balance around the innate hedonism of gamers for the good of the game. Just because I want the ability to rez myself (or not lose XP), to fly everywhere, and to reduce all downtime doesn't mean it's good for the game.

Yes you are right that MMOs had been gaining popularity, but Luclin had been out for almost 2 years, PoP almost a full year when EQ hit its peak of subs, by that point in time it was a very different game than classic for quite a while. It would a inaccurate to claim that it had nothing to do with it and was just the effects of the genre getting more popular.

And I'm not sure where having easier travel or levels going a bit faster translates into instant level 50 with one hail. But players do everything they can to make the game easier for themselves, devs have watched this behavior for years and are catering to it. I agree, there is a good point of balance, but like I said before..a games value is not based on each individual players experiences. It's how many subs they get, how many micro transactions they perform and...most MMO players want easy games.

[porigromus]

Originally Posted by Gadwen [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

But nothing stopped you from running right past that book and traveling on foot.

You can trivialize your travels even in classic. Like i said before, porting and running with a sow/lev isn't exactly a challenging or immersive experience.

I don't think you get it. I do not care to play a game if the game feels in-cohesive, sloppy, mismatched graphics, poorly imagined/implemented. I play for the ENTIRE experience. I don't care to be a part of a game world that feels rushed, ugly, and just a cobbled together mess.

I wouldn't go to the pool to enjoy myself if I had to swim around the turds. I will go to a pool without turds floating around.

[Gadwen]

Originally Posted by porigromus [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I don't think you get it. I do not care to play a game if the game feels in-cohesive, sloppy, mismatched graphics, poorly imagined/implemented. I play for the ENTIRE experience. I don't care to be a part of a game world that feels rushed, ugly, and just a cobbled together mess.

I wouldn't go to the pool to enjoy myself if I had to swim around the turds. I will go to a pool without turds floating around.

So you were forced to use the books. Tell us about it...did it hurt?