If you are Christian and are in the military , will you go to heaven if you kill ?

[Ephirith]

Originally Posted by t0lkien [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

OP's question belies a fundamental misunderstanding of the gospel.

Or in other words, you've got a bevy of selective interpretations and metaphors you can twist around to make the gospel say what you want it to. Lutheran, Calvinist, Adventist, Baptist, Orthodox, Anglican... pick an understanding! They all misunderstand the gospel according to a Catholic.

[t0lkien]

Originally Posted by Ephirith [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Or in other words, you've got a bevy of selective interpretations and metaphors you can twist around to make the gospel say what you want it to. Lutheran, Calvinist, Adventist, Baptist, Orthodox, Anglican... pick an understanding! They all misunderstand the gospel according to a Catholic.

The absolute best thing you can do is forget about all the guff and just read it. It's not as complicated as all this secondhand knowledge and discussion makes out. The first time I read it for myself I was amazed at how much I had been mislead by others as to what it actually said.

The first lesson of the Renaissance was to go to primary sources, yet so few actually do it even today. I say the same about the Koran BTW - everyone should read it so they know what it is they are arguing about.

[t0lkien]

Originally Posted by t0lkien [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The absolute best thing you can do is forget about all that guff and just read it. Many people were burned alive just so you have that right. It's not as complicated as all this secondhand knowledge and discussion makes out. The first time I read it for myself I was amazed at how much I had been mislead by others as to what it actually said.

The first lesson of the Renaissance was to go to primary sources, yet so few actually do it even today. I say the same about the Koran BTW - everyone should read it so they know what it is they are arguing about.

[Kagatob]

Originally Posted by stonez138 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'll stick to Greek Mythology. It's more believable. I mean we all know the Jesus myth was just a blatant rip off of the Dionysus myth right?

My knowledge of Dionysus is limited so I can neither confirm or deny it however the story of Jesus is based off of Gilgamesh through and through whom predates Dionysus as well so both Myths are likely based off of the Legend of Gilgamesh.

Originally Posted by t0lkien [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The absolute best thing you can do is forget about all the guff and just read it. It's not as complicated as all this secondhand knowledge and discussion makes out. The first time I read it for myself I was amazed at how much I had been mislead by others as to what it actually said.

Having read both the Torah and the New Testament on two separate occasions I'd like to request you clarify this statement. Are you trying to imply that the books don't promote violence/slavery/etc.? Or are you saying that they do regardless of interpretation because it's just plainly there. We agree if you meant the latter.

Originally Posted by t0lkien [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The first lesson of the Renaissance was to go to primary sources, yet so few actually do it even today. I say the same about the Koran BTW - everyone should read it so they know what it is they are arguing about.

Really? If you are going to go on about primary sources at least spell Quran correctly.

[stonez138]

Originally Posted by Kagatob [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

My knowledge of Dionysus is limited so I can neither confirm or deny it however the story of Jesus is based off of Gilgamesh through and through whom predates Dionysus as well so both Myths are likely based off of the Legend of Gilgamesh.

QFT!
We owe it all to the Sumerians.

[Kagatob]

Originally Posted by stonez138 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

QFT!
We owe it all to the Sumerians.

Gilgamesh was a better story too, he was 2/3 god because gods can do whatever the fuck they want.

A good chunk of the stories in both bibles are based upon the Sumerian texts anyway. Gilgamesh did it all, he conquered all threats and lead the people (borrowed by Christians/Jews almost word for word in the stories of King David).
He survived the great deluge with a massive boat and helped with re-population (flood later borrowed for Noah's story).
Of course there's also Jesus who's entire biography was a dumbed down ripoff of Gilgamesh's life (Though he showed humility by only being 'half' god [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] ).

There's a bunch more too including but not limited to Genesis, the idea of a sacred trinity, and which days of the year are considered holy.

[t0lkien]

Originally Posted by Kagatob [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

My knowledge of Dionysus is limited so I can neither confirm or deny it however the story of Jesus is based off of Gilgamesh through and through whom predates Dionysus as well so both Myths are likely based off of the Legend of Gilgamesh.

Having read both the Torah and the New Testament on two separate occasions I'd like to request you clarify this statement. Are you trying to imply that the books don't promote violence/slavery/etc.? Or are you saying that they do regardless of interpretation because it's just plainly there. We agree if you meant the latter.


Really? If you are going to go on about primary sources at least spell Quran correctly.

Re. Koran, seriously? It's the English rendering, as you well know. Cheap tactics man.

On the other points - and as I'm sure you are aware also - they have been addressed and answered thousands of times on the internet. If you're seriously looking for truth and not just an argument, you'd already know this. The Old Testament was law, the New Testament is the answer to it, and fulfillment of it. I'm not denying this is a big discussion, but firing cheap shots across the bow doesn't win your side any points (except perhaps on Reddit and forums such as this).

But meh... no-one is going to be convinced of anything on a forum where people come to argue. My point was the OP's question telegraphs a fundamental non-understanding of what the gospel is as outlined in the New Testament. We aren't saved by our own actions or inactions; we are saved by what Jesus did for us and our faith in him (within the context of the Bible, it's irrelevant what anyone things about that in regards to the truth of it - this is the message of the Bible, so when you talk about Christianity as the OP has, then this is the context within which the discussion is being held).

That's my only point.

[Hasbinbad]

Originally Posted by t0lkien [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The absolute best thing you can do is forget about all the guff and just read it. It's not as complicated as all this secondhand knowledge and discussion makes out.

The amount of idiocy on these forums never ceases to astound me.

Without context, the bible is a completely different book than if you explain things in terms of history.

Jesus H. Christ man, if what you're saying is true, then priests and preachers should all be out of jobs. Coz like .. that's what they do. Explain the bible (which the flock has already read) in terms of what was going on and how those lessons can be applied.

I don't mean to play the Reynes of Castamere at your little wedding party, but The Church would like to have a word with you.

[Ahldagor]

Originally Posted by Hasbinbad [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The amount of idiocy on these forums never ceases to astound me.

Without context, the bible is a completely different book than if you explain things in terms of history.

Jesus H. Christ man, if what you're saying is true, then priests and preachers should all be out of jobs. Coz like .. that's what they do. Explain the bible (which the flock usually hasn't read because they're lazy) in terms of what was going on and how those lessons can be applied.

I don't mean to play the Reynes of Castamere at your little wedding party, but The Church would like to have a word with you.

ftfy

[myriverse]

Originally Posted by Hasbinbad [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Jesus H. Christ man, if what you're saying is true, then priests and preachers should all be out of jobs.

Guess he's right then... because they should be.