WoW so followed EQ

[President]

Originally Posted by Reiker [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

No shit. We can do that forever, moron. MMORPGs ripped off MUDs. MUDs ripped off D&D. D&D ripped off Tolkein, and on and on.

Bringing up completely different gaming platforms/genres is completely pointless. The point still remains, in the realm of MMORPGs, WoW copied over half of DAoC.

I think that list has a few things that are from AC, and EQ before DAoC.. Pretty sure there was a PVP server that had faction based PVP in EQ.. Almost the whole rest of the that list was in AC as well..

[Reiker]

Originally Posted by President [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I think that list has a few things that are from AC, and EQ before DAoC.. Pretty sure there was a PVP server that had faction based PVP in EQ.. Almost the whole rest of the that list was in AC as well..

I never played AC, so possibly. But DAoC was way more popular than AC, so I'd still argue that WoW took ideas that were popularized by DAoC.

I don't consider the EQ team PvP servers "faction vs. faction" pvp. They weren't really factions like DAoC and WoW were. Members of teams started all over the world. You didn't have your own consolidated alliance/kingdom like in DAoC/WoW. The entire game wasn't based around competing factions.

[President]

Originally Posted by Reiker [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I never played AC, so possibly. But DAoC was way more popular than AC, so I'd still argue that WoW took ideas that were popularized by DAoC.

I don't consider the EQ team PvP servers "faction vs. faction" pvp. They weren't really factions like DAoC and WoW were. Members of teams started all over the world. You didn't have your own consolidated alliance/kingdom like in DAoC/WoW. The entire game wasn't based around competing factions.

That's a bit of stating the obvious there Reiker [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] Though they didn't have their own starting/safe area, I believe it was still very territorial. I never played it myself, but I feel like I remember people discussing it and certain factions "controlled" certain areas. As in - The darkies raided solb and took that over for xp/gear that day/week/month.. same with seb/com etc. Not quite the same, but actually sounds pretty freaking fun to me.

[Yrahcaz]

Originally Posted by Tork [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'd mostly agree - except to say anything after PoP should be written out of EQ.

I don't want to kill space aliens, I want to kill dragons and demons and Gods. I want simple story arcs with loads of lore and special events, places and people.

And EQ mostly delivered on that up to PoP, even including SoL, which was horrible and ruined the sense of community with Nexus/Bazaar and don't get me started on those horrific new models, but EXCLUDING LDON - instancing destroys what is central to EQ (or at least to EQ's playerbase), which is contested content and the shared experience. More to the point, you cannot have a hero without a villain, and all those contested points of contact provided just the right stage and just the right amount of friction to make it all work.

Why are lguk and os so much fun? The frogs? Well, yes in part - but the lore is only part of it - think of all the ways shit went bad in those zones, and how much a part of your player experience was built on those memories - the good ones.

The subculture which formed in that communal experience was amazing - grinding out hell levels, camping rare spawns, ninja/ks'ing named, and all the /ooc magic in groups filled with a rotating cast of characters are what made it fun - not getting yet another disposable piece of loot.

<snip>

Speaking of long run, I might as well throw it out there Nexus and PoK helped ruin the world by making the world too small - part of EQ was being swallowed up in it. The run to NTOV is epic - doing CR there is painful, but rewarding... how utterly forgettable is it so click on a book?

I'd rant more, but I'm sleepy exhausted - suffice it to say EQ, even with its warts, had the right formula - if people see analogues in WoW, good.

YES!

The open world. The contested content. The griefers. The trains. The Ninjas and KS'ers. The hero 'ubers' that would stand at zone lines slaughtering trains in newbie zones, tossing buffs at random.

Coming home from whatever, sitting down and chatting with people that you've gotten to know over the course of days/months/years. Getting all prepared, starting to buff up, and having *that other guild* come in and start doing the same... AND THE RACE IS ON!

/waving at the guy that you've seen fishing at the same spot for a week trying to get enough to grind through another few tradeskill levels... as you're on your way to whatever spot to try and grind through some more XP.

The beauty of the non-instanced, huge world that we were all emersed in was the unexpected.

I remember finally getting the people together for those raids into Sky, Fear, and Hate for my duckstick. Having the entire group come with me, collecting people as we went, a rolling party the whole way back to Kazen for my final turn in.

I miss those days. I miss that experience. Unless there comes a time where a real, open world game with the community like EQ is released, I doubt that anything will even come close.

Given how real life has changed since 1999, I don't think I'd even have the time to play it.

/mourn Hell, I'm almost as bummed typing this as I was the day I called farewell to Steamfont, sat at the feet of my original Gnecro guildmaster, and /quit for the last time.

[quellren]

No matter how hard one tries, you just cannot capture the sense of enormity, grandeur and peril of EQ. That's not to say there aren't some things that WoW does right, but EQ did so much more right. The kids that started with WoW and DAoC just won't ever understand the need for community, teamwork and, for lack of better term: Not pooping in your own backyard.

I could expound on this for pages, all the things that I love and hate about EQ, but if you're reading this, I'm preaching to the choir.

One thing I will say, I'm thrilled to see the old EQ community is still there, mostly just like I remember it. Seems like the 'WoW mentality' hasn't really infected here.

[Reiker]

Originally Posted by quellren [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The kids that started with WoW and DAoC just won't ever understand the need for community, teamwork and, for lack of better term: Not pooping in your own backyard.

Man, I have friends that love EQ but won't even touch the DAoC emu server because that game is so hardcore. Strange to lump it with WoW.

Same guy who had more than 1 50 on P99 gave up the DAoC grind.

[EvilMallet]

WoW is all of the good parts (in the dev's opinions) of all successful mmos before it.

[EvilMallet]

Originally Posted by Reiker [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Man, I have friends that love EQ but won't even touch the DAoC emu server because that game is so hardcore. Strange to lump it with WoW.

Same guy who had more than 1 50 on P99 gave up the DAoC grind.

I remember the only raid our realm could get on my server was the dragon in the far south corner of Hibernia [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[quellren]

Originally Posted by Reiker [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Man, I have friends that love EQ but won't even touch the DAoC emu server because that game is so hardcore. Strange to lump it with WoW.

Same guy who had more than 1 50 on P99 gave up the DAoC grind.

I lumped them together because I remember feeling the same way in DAoC as I did in WoW. The majority of the player base would just as soon laugh and tea-bag your corpse as rez you. Or at least want a bunch of money for a 5 second cast and a few ticks of mana that regens in 15 seconds.
They wouldn't run to help you even a whit. A 'Your death is not my problem' mentality.
I don't feel that way in EQ nearly as much.

I have no idea what you're referring to in regards to the DAoC grind, but then I did play a BoneDancer. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] Did it change drastically? Either way, I'd never consider the lvl grind hardcore, especially PvE up through ToA. I didn't plat beyond that. How hard can it be? once you have one lvl 50, you got to start every new alt at 20.

Originally Posted by EvilMallet [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

WoW is all of the good parts (in the dev's opinions) of all successful mmos before it.

WoW could have stood on the shoulders of giants and been just that, all the best parts of those that paved the way. Then the 12 year olds without social etiquette and the e-peen contests ruined it.

[Reiker]

Originally Posted by quellren [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I lumped them together because I remember feeling the same way in DAoC as I did in WoW. The majority of the player base would just as soon laugh and tea-bag your corpse as rez you. Or at least want a bunch of money for a 5 second cast and a few ticks of mana that regens in 15 seconds.
They wouldn't run to help you even a whit. A 'Your death is not my problem' mentality.
I don't feel that way in EQ nearly as much.

I have no idea what you're referring to in regards to the DAoC grind, but then I did play a BoneDancer. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] Did it change drastically? Either way, I'd never consider the lvl grind hardcore, especially PvE up through ToA. I didn't plat beyond that. How hard can it be? once you have one lvl 50, you got to start every new alt at 20.

Yeah dude, I quit before Bone Dancers were even part of the game. Pre-ToA grind was fucking hellish, and the community was the best of any MMO I've ever played. There was a lot of "us vs. them" realm camaraderie. You actually felt like part of a team, and many had a "helping a stranger is helping the realm" mentality. I'm not sure how the game changed post-ToA as I quit during SI.

DAOC leveling is like EQ with no hell levels, until 40. 40-50 is one giant fucking hell level.