Deciding my offhand.

[zanderklocke]

Originally Posted by astuce999 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

>>The issue here isn't DPS, it's reality. What is the third dot that does as much as the frost/fire chants?

Lvl 59 Denon’s Bereavement

>>How are you chanting for that much while also meleeing (that's selo's damage on those chants, after all).

Clicking in instruments in the fraction of a second that it takes for the dot to land, than clicking back my weapons.

>>Charming doesn't really ADD 30-50 dps I wouldn't think, since you are sacrificing something else in order to do the charm.

I use a 5 song twist +BoH click, so since with the 3 dots that gives me 2 more songs, one being mana song and since don’t need to snare until end of fight charming recast works fine.

>>And how does the rest of your group feel about you doing this stuff instead of the usual bard stuff?

At first they’re usually apprehensive, but after a while I get some very positive feedback. Then at the end, they all talk about making bard twinks or never being able to play a bard like that, you know, the usual stuff.

>>Or are you really that fucking amazing that you can twist a few chants while somehow also meleeing and charming without requiring total attention from the healer to keep you up and/or costing the rest of the group DPS because stuff is chasing you all over the place?

Usually the necro healer keeps me up fine, or the mob is slowed, or I have my “tank gear” on including shield et. Al, or stuff is feared so we are chasing it and no one needs heals. Ask around about me (or other top bards) [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]


sorry for the replies like that I am doing this at work so can't stay logged in haha.

Astuce Subterfuge

You use a shield when tanking as a bard...what?

I would want to kill myself if I was focused on swapping in a drum for weapons every time a DoT song landed while I was also maintaining other bard beneficial songs.

Here's my typical twist, and I always feel busy:
Cantana, Villa's Chorus haste (unless there's another haster, then verse of victory or chant of battle, depending on whether warrior is proccing enough and needs more dex), psalm of warmth for damage shield and to avoid ice comets in sebilis, and add in largo a absonant binding (assuming no slower/snarer). Add in Breath of Harmony click, and dang I'm getting busy.

If someone else is slowing, snaring, I guess I could be charming and landing DoT instead, but charm is more of a means of more crowd control for me when too many mobs are in camp.

I think biggest thing bards bring typically is our crowd control, haste, pulling, and slow/snare abilities in a group. I mean obviously we vary our play styles based on what is needed, but I just feel like DoT's have diminishing returns usually when other beneficial buffs can be provided to the group.

But holy shit man, you are a beast to be doing everything you describe yourself doing in a group. However, that's the cool thing about bards. There's tons of ways to play them, as well as many ways to gear them.

[Splorf22]

So I have only played a bard to 38 but the Deajay/Astuce math seems hugely optimistic in my experience.

First, I don't think a charmed pet is 50 dps or even close. An enc pet is about 100 and gets a bonus of maybe 1.6*1.8 for haste/dw. 100/(1.6*1.8) = 35 which is a bit more realistic. Plus if the bard is pulling 2 at a time, the charmed pet is only fighting half the time. Basically I see bard charm as 'mez with benefits' more than huge dps.

Second, I never manged to do more than 4 songs, especially when charming because unless you time it perfectly the pet will interrupt you periodically, or the tank won't have aggro, or whatnot. If you are singing 5 I have to imagine that stuff like haste and cantata is dropping all the time. but hey, maybe I was doing something wrong.

Third, I found that in a good group the dots weren't that effective because shit would die so fast (~30s). I would usually be pulling so I would twist say Haste/Slow/Mana/DoT and maybe I would get 2-3 dot ticks off.

Fourth, I would miss a lot of melee rounds due to targeting or chain pulling or whatnot.

So I think a more reasonable estimate for the dps bard (reasonable if there are both an enchanter/shaman to handle haste/slow) is 15 dps melee, 15 dps charm, 100/tick from two songs = 15 dps, so 45-50.

This is making me want to dust off Dramor though [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] I've been trying a mage and the lack of root is driving me crazy. If you are on sometime I'd be happy to bust out Sakuragi and see your bard in action Astuce, maybe i'll eat my words!

[zanderklocke]

Originally Posted by astuce999 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

http://www.project1999.org/forums/sh...ad.php?t=14926

"depending on the server tick, a normal song will last anywhere between 12-18 seconds."

I've read your post before, didn't realize until now that you wrote it, but I've never understood this statement. Do server ticks vary; do not all songs last 18 seconds? I've never understood what you are explaining in that sentence.

For me, being a bard and twisting has been more about feeling things rather than knowing when a song will disappear. I always 'feel' when a charm will break or when a song will drop. For this reason, I feel like I can feel out 4 songs + BoH clickie being twisted, but 5 songs + BoH clickie just doesn't feel right to me. I like to be able to keep all songs up without frequent drops of a song or two.

[zanderklocke]

Random question: Do any other classes change as much as a bard once getting their epic? I mean the bard epic is completely game changing and changes what songs you twist in groups (mcvaxius) and raids (psalm resists as opposed to drum resists).

It's going to be weird sort of relearning my class a bit once I get the bard epic.

[astuce999]

The best example I can think of about a server tick is that no matter when you are casting a dot, and stacking dots on a mob, the damage the mob will take will be from all dots all at once. The server ticks every 6 seconds, and when its time is up, anything that is “on” at the time will be applied. Whether it is HP regen, mana regen, or dots, it all happens when the server ticks.

I’d like to be able to draw a nice little graphic that shows all the seconds within the server tick, all the time you have to apply new songs or refresh old effects that have dropped off before it makes any difference at all, but I don’t have those capabilities from work.

Maybe someone else can explain

Astuce

[zanderklocke]

So does this mean only certain songs can be twisted as a 5th song, or no?