Why do devs keep making these retarded cash shop MMORPGs that all fail?

[gotrocks]

See, i think theres nothing wrong at all with cosmetic item shops, and i actually think they improve the experience for everyone (i for one dont mind seeing someone wearing a cool hat or having a neat mount or whatever - it's kind of cool). Not only does it make the game completely free to play and NOT pay to win (so everyone can enjoy it!), but in most cases when this is done well it provides the developer with plenty of money, often times more than they'd make if they went pure subscription based.

You can look at games like TF2 or DotA 2 for fantastic examples of this. In fact, in both of those games, some people are actually making a living off designing new cosmetic items for the game! Very cool.

I completely agree with pay 2 win being complete shit, and i avoid any game that uses that like the plague. Especially if the 'best' items in the game can be purchased - it just makes everything a waste of time. I'm not against some very, very light xp boost type items, so long as they aren't completely ridiculous (i've seen 1.5x xp gain - 2x xp gain used in games and it really doesn't tip the scales that much. Obviously the people who are willing to pay for that stuff end up leveling faster, but not that big of a deal in the end), but i'd prefer to just keep it cosmetic based. Another great example of this is planetside 2.

Developers need to realize, and fast, that making their game pay to win is only going to hurt them in the end. It may seem like a fantastic idea from a business standpoint at first - people end up buying tons of items and stuff right away and the developer makes tons of cash - but in the end its only going to make people leave, whether its because they get bored or because they are tired of playing with pay2winners. I think a lot of studios are realizing that keeping purchases to cosmetics only is really the only way to go, and im really excited about what that means for not just MMO's but games in general. These 'pay4looks' games are doing extremely well (when they are done right, it can't be half assed), and I like where thats taking us.

Hopefully the makers of neverwinter nights (is it bioware? im assuming it is, black isle went away long ago) are only doing this pay2win bullshit because its beta. I can see them justifying a beta release like that to pick up some extra cash for development, and then completely changing the model for release. I still agree that its a blatant and shitty cash grab, im just hoping that it changes, as i had high hopes for neverwinter nights (i love the forgotten realms setting - its such a cool place, especially when you include all the different planes and such), but if its kept the way it is after release it is likely and rightfully going to bomb.

Good topic though, OP, definitely warrants discussion. I personally feel that my opinion is correct ([You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]) but i know everyone has different views on how this should work, and those views are no less correct than mine.

[HeallunRumblebelly]

Originally Posted by gotrocks [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

See, i think theres nothing wrong at all with cosmetic item shops, and i actually think they improve the experience for everyone (i for one dont mind seeing someone wearing a cool hat or having a neat mount or whatever - it's kind of cool). Not only does it make the game completely free to play and NOT pay to win (so everyone can enjoy it!), but in most cases when this is done well it provides the developer with plenty of money, often times more than they'd make if they went pure subscription based.

You can look at games like TF2 or DotA 2 for fantastic examples of this. In fact, in both of those games, some people are actually making a living off designing new cosmetic items for the game! Very cool.

I completely agree with pay 2 win being complete shit, and i avoid any game that uses that like the plague. Especially if the 'best' items in the game can be purchased - it just makes everything a waste of time. I'm not against some very, very light xp boost type items, so long as they aren't completely ridiculous (i've seen 1.5x xp gain - 2x xp gain used in games and it really doesn't tip the scales that much. Obviously the people who are willing to pay for that stuff end up leveling faster, but not that big of a deal in the end), but i'd prefer to just keep it cosmetic based. Another great example of this is planetside 2.

Developers need to realize, and fast, that making their game pay to win is only going to hurt them in the end. It may seem like a fantastic idea from a business standpoint at first - people end up buying tons of items and stuff right away and the developer makes tons of cash - but in the end its only going to make people leave, whether its because they get bored or because they are tired of playing with pay2winners. I think a lot of studios are realizing that keeping purchases to cosmetics only is really the only way to go, and im really excited about what that means for not just MMO's but games in general. These 'pay4looks' games are doing extremely well (when they are done right, it can't be half assed), and I like where thats taking us.

Hopefully the makers of neverwinter nights (is it bioware? im assuming it is, black isle went away long ago) are only doing this pay2win bullshit because its beta. I can see them justifying a beta release like that to pick up some extra cash for development, and then completely changing the model for release. I still agree that its a blatant and shitty cash grab, im just hoping that it changes, as i had high hopes for neverwinter nights (i love the forgotten realms setting - its such a cool place, especially when you include all the different planes and such), but if its kept the way it is after release it is likely and rightfully going to bomb.

Good topic though, OP, definitely warrants discussion. I personally feel that my opinion is correct ([You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]) but i know everyone has different views on how this should work, and those views are no less correct than mine.

It's cryptic / perfect world. We've got a game company with a history of shit game after shit game combined with azn cash shop pros. This can only go badly.

[Samoht]

Originally Posted by gotrocks [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Hopefully the makers of neverwinter nights (is it bioware? im assuming it is, black isle went away long ago) are only doing this pay2win bullshit because its beta.

neverwinter != neverwinter nights

[gotrocks]

oh yuck. i had no idea...

and i was 99% sure neverwinter nights was forgotten realms. am i wrong there? i remember reading about it and it was in fact taking place in the neverwinter area.

edit-

yeah i just looked it up and it is. too bad the developer is crap.

[nilbog]

re: subject

Money.

I doubt the majority of this trash is produced because of someone's 'vision'. A production company or group of investors proposes: can we invest X and expect a return of X(2) + (any additional). If that answer is yes, they contract a group of developers who work probably very little.. for little money, and release unfinished, unpolished and widely untested content.

For the developers it's just a job. For the production company, it's just money. In the end, they don't care about their reputation for releasing trash because it's often not the same developers that released their former trash. They make their X(2) and move on to the next one. This leaves the developers looking incompetent and players raging because the games suck and are little more than a money funnel for winning.

That's my opinion.

[gotrocks]

^^^ agree. this has been happening a lot lately. actually, this has happened a lot over the entire history of gaming... it just seems to be worse now because these 'freetoplay' games are such money sinks. corporate sucks.

[myriverse]

Originally Posted by gotrocks [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

oh yuck. i had no idea...

and i was 99% sure neverwinter nights was forgotten realms. am i wrong there? i remember reading about it and it was in fact taking place in the neverwinter area.

edit-

yeah i just looked it up and it is. too bad the developer is crap.

It's all the same brand. Neverwinter = D&D Forgotten Realms = Neverwinter Nights.

But they are different games.

[Thulack]

Originally Posted by Rhambuk [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Makes me sad to think that there are people with this much money to throw away on literally nothing, nothing, nothing...

Some people shouldn't be allowed to decide what to do with their own money

People would call you and i and many other retarded for spending 10-15 dollars a month to play a game were we got nothing other then pixels. Personally i spend 400 dollars a month on weed and have nothing to show for it except my sanity. It's all in the eye of the person with the money.

[Samoht]

Originally Posted by myriverse [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It's all the same brand. Neverwinter = D&D Forgotten Realms = Neverwinter Nights.

No, no it's not. The publisher and the developer for NWN has had absolutely nothing to do with the latest iteration of Neverwinter.

Neverwinter != Neverwinter Nights

[HeallunRumblebelly]

Originally Posted by nilbog [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

re: subject

Money.

I doubt the majority of this trash is produced because of someone's 'vision'. A production company or group of investors proposes: can we invest X and expect a return of X(2) + (any additional). If that answer is yes, they contract a group of developers who work probably very little.. for little money, and release unfinished, unpolished and widely untested content.

For the developers it's just a job. For the production company, it's just money. In the end, they don't care about their reputation for releasing trash because it's often not the same developers that released their former trash. They make their X(2) and move on to the next one. This leaves the developers looking incompetent and players raging because the games suck and are little more than a money funnel for winning.

That's my opinion.

Their handling of STO pretty much shows this. Cryptic bangs out mmo's faster than I've ever seen. Terrible ones, too :P