So when did classic get rid of xp penalties?

[holkan]

Originally Posted by Vexden [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I fully understand this wanting to keep it classic.

What I don't understand is why be so hard headed on keeping something "classic" but allow other things to be different.

Good example is the 9th spell gem, the different / updated client, the new player models that are allowed (server should force client side model detection), the mob pathing updated to where you cannot outrun mobs by using the strafe method. Those are just a few things that are NOT Classic. I think it almost seems a bit hypocritical to pick and choose what you think should be "classic" and what "isn't"

I can't express enough even with this post how grateful I >AM< about the devs making this server the way it has been. This whole thing being brought back has really sparked a new mmorpg love. It just gets very frustrating when certain things do not make sense.

I would think that you could keep the classic feel, without discrimating classes / races by putting a penalty a certain way (that was later changed anyway) to make it to where no one wants to group with them.

they are limited by what they can change anything server side is an easy fix client fixes / global emu fixes like pathing are MUCH harder and more time consuming so it will take them a long time to fix. Fixing XP penalties I'm sure was not very hard

Also I'm not even sure how they'd get client fixes in we'd obviously have to download fixes or be patched in some way.

[Aeolwind]

Originally Posted by Vexden [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

the mob pathing updated to where you cannot outrun mobs by using the strafe method.

This wasn't a pathing change, it was a run speed change. You can outrun them using strafing & jumping, I tested this many times in beta by myself AND with other testers. .01 slower and it is completely trivial to escape, no strafing/jumping required. You are out of melee range in 2-3 hits. .01 faster and you have no chance of escape.

Once someone starts looking at the mob attack range/attack style this can be revisited & adjustments made to mob speed.

[Vexden]

Originally Posted by Aeolwind [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This wasn't a pathing change, it was a run speed change. You can outrun them using strafing & jumping, I tested this many times in beta by myself AND with other testers. .01 slower and it is completely trivial to escape, no strafing/jumping required. You are out of melee range in 2-3 hits. .01 faster and you have no chance of escape.

Once someone starts looking at the mob attack range/attack style this can be revisited & adjustments made to mob speed.

Still NOWHERE near classic, as the diagnal strafe / run was more than .01

Out of the whole post, it is sad that is the only thing that was replied on.

Either way, at least I know someone read it.

[Extunarian]

Still NOWHERE near classic, as the diagnal strafe / run was more than .01

This doesn't make sense...are you saying that jumping/strafing effectively raised your run speed to over 1.01?

It sounds like Aoelwind and other spent a long time tweaking mob run speed one hundredth at a time. Your off-the-cuff estimates don't really hold water against the kind of empirical evidence he has purportedly gathered.

[Bumamgar]

Originally Posted by Vexden [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Still NOWHERE near classic, as the diagnal strafe / run was more than .01

Out of the whole post, it is sad that is the only thing that was replied on.

Either way, at least I know someone read it.

Vexden, we know there are a lot of things that aren't perfect and true to classic on this server. The list of changes is a mile long and grows nearly every day.

There are only a few devs, and the title "Developer" actually covers a wide range of skillsets and duties. Some developers know C++ and work on the source code for the server, other developers don't know C++ and work on spawn points, quests, etc. Different issues require different skill sets to resolve. Some issues require multiple skillsets to resolve. Some issues are impossible to resolve due to the client we are forced to use. We fix what we have the skills and time to fix.

Full disclosure: I play an Ogre Warrior on p1999. I leveled up with my wife, a Dark Elf Cleric, and we noticed fairly early on that I was earning XP faster than she was, which shouldn't be the case. I raised the issue to Nilbog and Rogean and they agreed to let me look at the XP portion of the p1999 source code. I worked on it and noticed a variety of issues with the XP system regarding racial penalties, grouping bonuses, XP split for group members, etc. These issues and fixes were discussed with the devs for weeks and a lot of research was done to determine what would be as close to classic as possible. Care was taken to avoid changing any players current level. The systems were tested on my personal server, then on the p1999 Test server (first by devs, then by players). Once they were deemed stable and approved, they were patched live.

Net result, my wife and I noticed that I was personally gaining XP way too fast, and I fixed it, nerfing myself in the process. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[Vexden]

Originally Posted by Extunarian [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This doesn't make sense...are you saying that jumping/strafing effectively raised your run speed to over 1.01?

It sounds like Aoelwind and other spent a long time tweaking mob run speed one hundredth at a time. Your off-the-cuff estimates don't really hold water against the kind of empirical evidence he has purportedly gathered.

Actually no.. it was a diagnal run. you would hold your forward and strafe key at the same time while using your mouse turned just a bit to make sure you would run in a straight line. I believe this caused the mob to not path exactly straight. So it would not really make you run faster, but make the mob go slower if I understand it right.

[Vexden]

Originally Posted by Bumamgar [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Vexden, we know there are a lot of things that aren't perfect and true to classic on this server. The list of changes is a mile long and grows nearly every day.

There are only a few devs, and the title "Developer" actually covers a wide range of skillsets and duties. Some developers know C++ and work on the source code for the server, other developers don't know C++ and work on spawn points, quests, etc. Different issues require different skill sets to resolve. Some issues require multiple skillsets to resolve. Some issues are impossible to resolve due to the client we are forced to use. We fix what we have the skills and time to fix.

Full disclosure: I play an Ogre Warrior on p1999. I leveled up with my wife, a Dark Elf Cleric, and we noticed fairly early on that I was earning XP faster than she was, which shouldn't be the case. I raised the issue to Nilbog and Rogean and they agreed to let me look at the XP portion of the p1999 source code. I worked on it and noticed a variety of issues with the XP system regarding racial penalties, grouping bonuses, XP split for group members, etc. These issues and fixes were discussed with the devs for weeks and a lot of research was done to determine what would be as close to classic as possible. Care was taken to avoid changing any players current level. The systems were tested on my personal server, then on the p1999 Test server (first by devs, then by players). Once they were deemed stable and approved, they were patched live.

Net result, my wife and I noticed that I was personally gaining XP way too fast, and I fixed it, nerfing myself in the process. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I fully understand how tedious it can be to do something for a game you love, and not receive any money for it. I give kudo's to all of you guys and the work you do. I do too understand the xp ideal and the PERSONAL xp penalties that one should receive.

The >ONLY< concern I have is the xp penalty that is given to the group. It is bad enough to receive the penalty personally, but when it is handed to the group as well, that is where I think it is unfair. (As mentioned before, groups will reserve the right to let hybrids in).

I hate to say it, but no matter how good someone is at their class, how nice they are, if their direct grouping causes me to almost double my time to get the same amount of xp as someone else, I would want to group someone else instead.

[Hidn]

Nerfing yourself ... You're already level 48 though ... [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[dacduster]

So....It's YOUR fault [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Originally Posted by Bumamgar [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Vexden, we know there are a lot of things that aren't perfect and true to classic on this server. The list of changes is a mile long and grows nearly every day.

There are only a few devs, and the title "Developer" actually covers a wide range of skillsets and duties. Some developers know C++ and work on the source code for the server, other developers don't know C++ and work on spawn points, quests, etc. Different issues require different skill sets to resolve. Some issues require multiple skillsets to resolve. Some issues are impossible to resolve due to the client we are forced to use. We fix what we have the skills and time to fix.

Full disclosure: I play an Ogre Warrior on p1999. I leveled up with my wife, a Dark Elf Cleric, and we noticed fairly early on that I was earning XP faster than she was, which shouldn't be the case. I raised the issue to Nilbog and Rogean and they agreed to let me look at the XP portion of the p1999 source code. I worked on it and noticed a variety of issues with the XP system regarding racial penalties, grouping bonuses, XP split for group members, etc. These issues and fixes were discussed with the devs for weeks and a lot of research was done to determine what would be as close to classic as possible. Care was taken to avoid changing any players current level. The systems were tested on my personal server, then on the p1999 Test server (first by devs, then by players). Once they were deemed stable and approved, they were patched live.

Net result, my wife and I noticed that I was personally gaining XP way too fast, and I fixed it, nerfing myself in the process. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[YendorLootmonkey]

Originally Posted by Vexden [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I fully understand how tedious it can be to do something for a game you love, and not receive any money for it. I give kudo's to all of you guys and the work you do. I do too understand the xp ideal and the PERSONAL xp penalties that one should receive.

The >ONLY< concern I have is the xp penalty that is given to the group. It is bad enough to receive the penalty personally, but when it is handed to the group as well, that is where I think it is unfair. (As mentioned before, groups will reserve the right to let hybrids in).

I hate to say it, but no matter how good someone is at their class, how nice they are, if their direct grouping causes me to almost double my time to get the same amount of xp as someone else, I would want to group someone else instead.

This.

We didn't know this back in 1999. Ten years later, now we do. SOE fixed it when we found out, so as to not make it more difficult for hybrids to find groups. Now we have a unique situation where we know the penalty is shared but it is not fixed. This condition did not happen in classic.