Asking a favor from the two top guilds on the server

[Ravager]

Originally Posted by AenarieFenninRo [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

My argument is simply for some level of effort to be put in, rather than sitting back and requesting that nobody else "camp" the free samples guy so that they can get a chance to speak to him first whenever someone "happens" to notice that he was around.

What's wrong with this? The "some level of effort" you ask is 96+ hours of tracking and having mains parked and buffed on spawn points 5, 6, or 7 days a week depending on how windows overlap, waking up at 3am to your computer already on at the log in or character select screen. This is pretty unreasonable and it boggles my mind how TMO and FE aren't disgusted with themselves for doing it to themselves.

[AenarieFenninRo]

Originally Posted by finalgrunt [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If we follow this logic, there shouldn't be seperate leagues. There shouldn't be distinction between men and women. "Sorry girlz, but you need to step up your game if you want to win that medal!".

It's a request to have a regular time window in which 2nd league guilds would be able to compete among each other. By investing so much time and effort, top guilds would still get to enjoy an overwhelming part of the content (we're talking non priority targets here ...). Which happens to be from a 13 y.o game on an emu server and now, we're pretty much all adults if I'm not mistaken. I don't see why we couldn't agree on something that trivial really.

Lastly, at the moment, no details were discussed on how would small guilds manage that window. So in my opinion, there would still be competition involved.

In conclusion, if that's what you want to hear, yes, players in smaller guilds don't come near the two current top guilds involvement. However, I didn't really see anybody claiming otherwise. And if you're "all for everyone having fun, and everyone getting a chance to do something they might not normally get the chance to do", then you should support this request too [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

In this scenario, your "separate leagues" would be another server. There aren't other servers like this one however, so we're all in the same league regardless of race / class / gender / any other differences.

Given that we're all in the same league, then the "rules" should be equal across the board for what determines who gets to do what. At the current, this means tracking targets, and racing for the spawns.

You're now asking to change the "rules" of the game, so that other people get a chance... an admirable and lofty goal to be sure, and even one that can possibly be met through some efforts on everyone's part.

Again, i'm not saying that something cant be worked out, or shouldn't be worked out, i'm simply stating (based on your analogy) you need to start within in the current "ruleset" before you go changing the rules. This would mean doing some tracking of targets at the very least.

Going back to my original statement, let the other players know your intent, that you're tracking target X, and they may be more accommodating than you think.

[AenarieFenninRo]

Originally Posted by Ravager [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

What's wrong with this? The "some level of effort" you ask is 96+ hours of tracking and having mains parked and buffed on spawn points 5, 6, or 7 days a week depending on how windows overlap, waking up at 3am to your computer already on at the log in or character select screen. This is pretty unreasonable and it boggles my mind how TMO and FE aren't disgusted with themselves for doing it to themselves.

That is not true, please don't put your assumption as to what my words state.

Some level of effort could be - tracking a mob from noon-9pm.. and if it spawns outside that window, you dont expect to engage it

Some level of effort could be - poopsocking (I hope nobody takes this seriously)

There are many things that could be defined as "some level of effort" not just 96+ hours of tracking and waking up at 4am to kill the mob. Thats the current top guilds' level of effort, i'm not trying to turn the other guilds into us.

The key word being SOME

right now, the level of effort being put in is "please dont raid during week x" Given that the top guilds have established themselves as "RAIDING" guilds, asking them to go against their "reason for being" is not a very persuasive argument.

[Ravager]

Originally Posted by AenarieFenninRo [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

That is not true, please don't put your assumption as to what my words state.

Some level of effort could be - tracking a mob from noon-9pm.. and if it spawns outside that window, you dont expect to engage it

Some level of effort could be - poopsocking (I hope nobody takes this seriously)

There are many things that could be defined as "some level of effort" not just 96+ hours of tracking and waking up at 4am to kill the mob. Thats the current top guilds' level of effort, i'm not trying to turn the other guilds into us.

The key word being SOME

right now, the level of effort being put in is "please dont raid during week x" Given that the top guilds have established themselves as "RAIDING" guilds, asking them to go against their "reason for being" is not a very persuasive argument.

It's not unreasonable to ask for a week of mobs. It is unreasonable to expect casual guilds to track for any amount of time and think they still have a chance at the mob. I don't care if it's 3 hours or 30, most reasonable people don't have their laptops tethered with them at all times to be able to answer a batphone at a moment's notice. Even if a casual guild were to "get lucky" and happen to be tracking the mob when it pops, they're not likely to get it and as has been seen recently, they're not likely to get it even when it spawns right in front of them while they have a raid force present.

Any level of effort short of doing exactly what TMO and FE does is not likely to get you any mobs.

[AenarieFenninRo]

Originally Posted by Ravager [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It's not unreasonable to ask for a week of mobs.

with zero effort, I dont agree,

Thats ok... this is a discussion, we dont have to agree on everything.

[finalgrunt]

Originally Posted by AenarieFenninRo [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

That is not true, please don't put your assumption as to what my words state.

Some level of effort could be - tracking a mob from noon-9pm.. and if it spawns outside that window, you dont expect to engage it

Some level of effort could be - poopsocking (I hope nobody takes this seriously)

There are many things that could be defined as "some level of effort" not just 96+ hours of tracking and waking up at 4am to kill the mob. Thats the current top guilds' level of effort, i'm not trying to turn the other guilds into us.

The key word being SOME

right now, the level of effort being put in is "please dont raid during week x" Given that the top guilds have established themselves as "RAIDING" guilds, asking them to go against their "reason for being" is not a very persuasive argument.

Smaller guilds have tried in the past to track, and mobilize. And even poopsock. More than once. Problem is, it's been proven to be ineffective.

During the said free week, smaller guilds would still have to track, mobilize and such. Thing is, the smaller guilds will face competition which they can actually beat if they try. Huge difference. It will not be free, but affordable.

[KotBK]

Aenarie please read what you type, you tell others not to base assumptions about you or your guild then that is all you yourself are making of others.

Who are you to say all these other guilds aren't or haven't been making "some kind of effort"? You have no idea as you aren't even fully aware of what your own guild does 24/7 or what each member believes. Please just be quiet or bring something intellectual to the table other than blatant hypocrisy.

[maverixdamighty]

Originally Posted by KotBK [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Aenarie please read what you type, you tell others not to base assumptions about you or your guild then that is all you yourself are making of others.

Who are you to say all these other guilds aren't or haven't been making "some kind of effort"? You have no idea as you aren't even fully aware of what your own guild does 24/7 or what each member believes. Please just be quiet or bring something intellectual to the table other than blatant hypocrisy.

I agree with some of what Aenarie is saying. There isn't much effort being made by these guilds to get targets. Yes I understand they don't want to have to do any tracking, organizing, etc because they think that it won't pay off, but honestly like others have said if you don't put in some effort no one is going to take you seriously. The only guild outside of tmo/fe that I've seen tracking lately was divinity a few sevs ago. I'm sure others have done it, but that's just the only guild i've seen doing anything.

If you want some of these mobs put forth some effort during your guilds best raiding hours and I think this would be received much better. That still covers most of the arguments being made about not wanting to batphone at 3 am, poopsock, camp chars etc.

[AenarieFenninRo]

Originally Posted by KotBK [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Aenarie please read what you type, you tell others not to base assumptions about you or your guild then that is all you yourself are making of others.

Who are you to say all these other guilds aren't or haven't been making "some kind of effort"? You have no idea as you aren't even fully aware of what your own guild does 24/7 or what each member believes. Please just be quiet or bring something intellectual to the table other than blatant hypocrisy.

You're absolutely correct, I dont know what these other guilds have been doing, but they have not told me either. I have made no assumptions as to what others have done, I am simply stating information from what has been posted here and my own thoughts about it. I can only speak from what I know. My argument was never about what they've done before, it is about what is being asked now, and I am expressing MY thoughts on the subject.

I am also not a spokesperson for TMO, I am a spokesperson for myself. If nobody has told me the effort they have made, I have no way to say that they have or have not made some level of effort. If you're stating that others have made efforts recently, then please tell me what they are because I dont see them listed here. I've never tried to state otherwise. I am simply stating that I personally would like to see some kind of effort.

I also do not know what people in my guild do 24/7, nor can I control their personal choices they make in game. I do however have a voice, and can express my thoughts and concerns to the leadership of TMO, which does respect my voice and opinions, so my opinions can influence the direction that my guild takes.

[arsenalpow]

Originally Posted by maverixdamighty [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I agree with some of what Aenarie is saying. There isn't much effort being made by these guilds to get targets. Yes I understand they don't want to have to do any tracking, organizing, etc because they think that it won't pay off, but honestly like others have said if you don't put in some effort no one is going to take you seriously. The only guild outside of tmo/fe that I've seen tracking lately was divinity a few sevs ago. I'm sure others have done it, but that's just the only guild i've seen doing anything.

If you want some of these mobs put forth some effort during your guilds best raiding hours and I think this would be received much better. That still covers most of the arguments being made about not wanting to batphone at 3 am, poopsock, camp chars etc.

It just gets escalated. Smaller guilds could track and campout for Sev and then from there it turns into people standing on the spawn point waiting to pull, then it turns into raids sitting on the spawn point. The level of stupidity doesn't stop, and that's assuming you can even catch a spawn in your guild's window of opportunity and get the pull before TMO or FE and get your raid force online to kill the pull in under 2 minutes. Again, it's all preposterous.