Asking a favor from the two top guilds on the server

[pharmakos]

Originally Posted by uygi [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

That's a much hairier idea than you probably realize. There are encounters right now, most notably Inny, CT and Trak, where one guild's wipe can often kill the other guild, at which point it turns into a real shit show. Then somebody messes up their CR (or maybe it's on purpose) and everybody gets trained again, etc. More guilds present, especially with less experience, lower levels and less encounter understanding would only make it worse.

oh well at least it'd be lulzy

Originally Posted by Sirken [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

why dont all these smaller guilds just merge to form a competitive guild, as opposed to hoping a mob pops within your guilds peak play time. for example u said 5pm-1am you'd be good to go, but not outside those hours.

so maybe time to think outside the box? if FC, FV, Div, and Taken were to merge, you would easily be able to start competing on just about any mob.

people will argue that they shouldnt have to merge to compete. and i will simply disagree because its not true. every top guild goes through mergers on their way to the top.

doing things the way you want, and doing things the way things need to be done to compete, are not always the same path. and theres a very good chance at some point you have to decide which of those paths you are going to embark on, because most times its not possible to do both.

"you guys don't like that the end game on this server is just a FTE/batphone competition? well the obvious solution is to merge and form another FTE/batphone guild!"

srsly?

[Vianna]

I came to this server because it was advertised as a classic server. I started a cleric because it is what I first played on live. All the way through as I was leveling in gfay, crushbone,unrest,and mistmoore the game was a pretty good representation of what I remembered and it was fun to play just like I remembered. I worked hard with several close guildies to grow Full Circle so we could simply get into planes and start getting people geared.... A lot of non-selfish people worked their tails off to get us there too. Still I was having the time of my life playing the game again I enjoyed .. I mean it was truly a joy to finally break through fear and hate with low numbers and start gearing up. We grew fast after that. Numbers swelled and before we knew it we had a player base of really skilled players for the most part who knew their classes well. We were excited at the prospects.....


That is where the classic experience stopped. Huge Variance windows .....Non-stop tracking of mobs....Bat-phones bringing forth zerg forces flooding the zones we were in when mobs spawned....It was like a butchered representation of what everquest was like to me and a lot of others. There was no shot to get a mob unless you did 1 or 2 things...... Do what they are doing or wait till a mob was late in window and sit there at it. We personally are a casual guild so there just was never gonna be enough people that wanted to spend their time on a tracker for the 5 or 6 hours they get to play and not be guaranteed of seeing the mob they are tracking... when they would rather be doing something fun with their time. So we chose the former route. We watched windows of mobs and started seeing which ones we had the force to kill and we took people to them. The next patch that came out took that option away with extended windows.

So now we are back to the point of trying to compete for mobs people need for their epics with casual players. A few months ago we were discussing shortening variance and having simulated patches. Instead we have a possible longer variance on raid mobs with no further discussion on simulated patch days. It makes you stop to ask yourself why are we intentionally going in a direction in the raid scene that alienates most of your server population from it ? I would be all for a rotation with any guild honestly. For just about any mob. Just to have fun attempting them again. I know there can't be a full sense of success for anyone when it turns into an FTE contest. It wasn't for me when I was there and we got Inny. It just leaves a bitter taste in your mouth.

I think I am with Splorf on this one. The most fun I have in EQ and ever had in EQ was raiding with the bare minimum and seeing if you could get it done. There is no challenge to the game when you send 40 people at a mob to zerg it to death. It gets the loot fast sure, but I read TMO say they enjoyed raiding to raid.... Not for the loot in another thread. Does TMO or FE honestly enjoy having 30 people from each side zerging a mob to death that lives a grand total of 10 seconds and poses no challenge at all ? I dunno I guess I am different, I enjoy games for the challenge they represent. There simply is no challenge besides a race on this server if you want to compete and you have to be ready to race 24 hours a day. So I support the OP in their endeavor.... Simply because it moves away from Alienating the largest part of the server.

[Shinko]

dont know about you guys, but i raid mobs on p99 with less people then we had on live

[quido]

So Shinko, did you get your warrior back or what? Who done it?

[finalgrunt]

Originally Posted by Shinko [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

4th and 5th Every Guild Race and if a guild thats not tmo get on the racemob with out pooping or somthing gets put on rotation list? somthing like this i don't know yet i will have to come up with somthing that fair for all partys if guilds would really want somthing. but this is just an idea, and such so

also stop calling tmo and fe zerg guilds im sorry the a team has like 6 players but the core of each guild tmo and fe is really small so

ie if vel dropped right now FE would not be getting lots of targets

Thanks a lot for putting consideration into this. The idea behind a window (1 week every X weeks) is that it would much simpler for the top guilds to monitor / organize. But I may be wrong. I know it's asking for a favor, and I wouldn't want it to turn into a hassle (and thus failing).

But if you believe you got something which wouldn't be much trouble for your guild and TMO, and would allow smaller guilds to compete on a more classic grounds, then sure.

And please everybody, this thread is not one to judge the top guilds involvement/strategies , or how the raid scene is or should be. I've read and participated enough in such threads to know it will not change. Top guilds have brought Everquest to a new level for many of us and we have to accept it.

Let's wait for TMO/FE proposals and discuss the details then.

Cheers!

[Aata]

Originally Posted by slappytwotoes [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This thread is getting derailed by Sirken's comments... no guilds need to merge.

Is TMO on board with this? CHECK (according to Tiggles)
Is FE on board with this? CHECK (I think.. according to Shinko)

We still need:

Confirm 1 week every 3 months;
Confirm the raid targets (outdoor dragons + Draco/Maestro?) or all raid targets?
Confirm timer to FTE (24 hours?);
anything else?;

Smaller guilds on board?
A-Team? CHECK (according to Lorean)
Divinity? CHECK (according to OP)
Taken?
Full Circle?
Flawless?
any other I missed?
Let's finish this checklist and see where we're at.

Count us in!

[Clark]

All this sort of talk came up during the days of IB vs DA (2010-2011) and TR vs TMO (2011-2012) and never amounted to anything. I'm not sure why people are putting so much thought and angst into this. It hasn't happened in this long, maybe some things aren't mean to be. Thats just my two cents though in a perfect world everyone would get the best drops, but this is Everquest.

[Halfelfbard]

Gotta admit some of the best time i can remember about live EQ (xev) was pick up raids for naggy/vox 48-52 people jus goin at it...then some of the bigger guilds would show up and help buff and kinda direct what todo.

I mean if there was a start to this somewhere, i guess it would have to that...or maybe Gore its a hard dragon and if u wanna feel accomplished in a kill that'd b the one to down.

[Clark]

Originally Posted by uygi [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

That's a much hairier idea than you probably realize. There are encounters right now, most notably Inny, CT and Trak, where one guild's wipe can often kill the other guild, at which point it turns into a real shit show. Then somebody messes up their CR (or maybe it's on purpose) and everybody gets trained again, etc. More guilds present, especially with less experience, lower levels and less encounter understanding would only make it worse. Then on top of that, FE and TMO (plus whoever else might theoretically be down to try) have the mess of trying to FTE versus eachother immediately as the smaller guild wipes. It would be a real mess. Now if TMO and FE were to /random to see who goes first instead of an all-out FTE lottery, that would solve this and some other problems (especially the problem of a guild with insufficient force getting a kill, which goes both ways).




New guilds have come up to compete in the last couple years with varying success. When I joined in 2010, DA and IB were the established top dogs. Between long-term alliances, short-term cooperation and competing on their own, VD certainly managed to win things in its time. TMO began its attempt to raid seriously when Kunark came out, and was a challenger at the time to IB/TR and DA/Asc/Fusion. TMO ultimately merged with DA/Asc/Fusion. BDA did, for a brief while, manage to put up some competition for TMO. And once upon a time Divinity got god and dragon kills as well (or so I'm told). You have to be willing to try and willing to fail a bunch before you start winning on a competitive server.

Also, TMO, IB and VD at one time had a three-way raiding agreement which set Trak/VP rotations and established rules beyond the server rules, and later IB/TMO had a 2-guild agreement. It could happen again. The #1 thing that I think prevents rotation is people across any guilds involved getting all butthurt or uppity about crap.



No, you wouldn't. There would be terms set. Most likely, one guild would absorb another and exercise primary authority. That's how that kind of thing usually works.


Also, the smaller guilds can work together to apply pressure. Get some spawn windows figured out, and when Trak is late in window know what else is in window and go for it, because FE and TMO are going to be focused on Trak. Heck, let's insert some code that makes world dragons likely to spawn any time Trak is alive. That'll give small guilds a head start.

Also, I think Sirken completely understands what's going on on the server. It's people crowded in a bubble working within a fairly arbitrary but necessary rules framework according to a pattern that has developed over years. He's just being realistic. It isn't Sirken job to dictate how we can make the raid scene equitable; he just works on the GM side within the same framework as the players, dealing with the limitations and enforcing the rules of the server.

+1

[Tecmos Deception]

Originally Posted by Sirken [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

so maybe time to think outside the box? if FC, FV, Div, and Taken were to merge, you would easily be able to start competing on just about any mob.

Mindless zerging for the sake of pixels is "thinking outside the box"?

Wow.

I'm sad now [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]