My America

[astarothel]

Originally Posted by Taxi [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Right. So i guess if i was "smart" and went to another neighboorhood than the one where the protests were and gave up my right to voice my opinion publicly then i wouldnt have been gassed. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I guess if you were "smart" and went to another neighbourhood -- you know one where other protesters were -- and maintained your right to voice your opinion publicly there, then you wouldn't have been gassed.

Because clearly there weren't numerous other options around QC with protest groups that weren't being gassed. I mean obviously the only one that was available to voice your opinion publicly just coincidentally had people moving in on the security fence and perimeter. I mean obviously the only one that mattered was the one that got gassed, right? The one you coincidentally happened to be attached to. You, the great revolutionary Taxi. Hey look I can use an appropriate emoticon too: [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[Taxi]

Originally Posted by astarothel [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I guess if you were "smart" and went to another neighbourhood -- you know one where other protesters were -- and maintained your right to voice your opinion publicly there, then you wouldn't have been gassed.

Because clearly there weren't numerous other options around QC with protest groups that weren't being gassed. I mean obviously the only one that was available to voice your opinion publicly just coincidentally had people moving in on the security fence and perimeter. I mean obviously the only one that mattered was the one that got gassed, right? The one you coincidentally happened to be attached to. You, the great revolutionary Taxi. Hey look I can use an appropriate emoticon too: [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

lol wanting for Quebec/Canada to live up to their democratic ideals doesnt make me a great revolutionnary.... If the police are allowed to tell us when and where we are allowed the rights of the charter, then its just a piece of paper not worth wiping your ass with. Of course i know cops can block roads etc etc... but when its blantantly anti-democratic and done with the purpose of preventing people from peaceful association then people are justified in fighting back.

[astarothel]

http://www.youtube.com/user/templeof.../0/oq8rkP1O5dA

check out all those provocateurs. oh wait...
Perhaps all those people were simply misinformed as to what a security perimeter and fence is actually for?

Take another look at the grise films while you're at it. The officers there show some incredible restraint in some cases. The guy that goes right up to the line and feels out their riot shields?

Since you were there you'd have seen plenty of aggressors that were most definitely not police agitators. Those people cost you your democratic rights as much as any law enforcement officer present did.

[Taxi]

Originally Posted by astarothel [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

http://www.youtube.com/user/templeof.../0/oq8rkP1O5dA

check out all those provocateurs. oh wait...
Perhaps all those people were simply misinformed as to what a security perimeter and fence is actually for?

Take another look at the grise films while you're at it. The officers there show some incredible restraint in some cases. The guy that goes right up to the line and feels out their riot shields?

Since you were there you'd have seen plenty of aggressors that were most definitely not police agitators. Those people cost you your democratic rights as much as any law enforcement officer present did.

The fence itself was police provocation, but lets leave that aside for the moment.

I never said anyone breaking stuff is an undercover cop. But once you accept this excuse from the cops that they can start busting heads, arresting anyone because of a few who are breaking stuff, then you leave the door wide open to abuse from police and planting of provocateurs. I saw this pattern repeated over and over and over again.

There is no reason as to why a few people breaking stuff should cost us our democratic rights, they can just arrest those few people.

Heres one example:

At the Montreal Jazz festival, 5 people smash up a store window. The cops let them do as they please, and 30mins after theyve left, they round up people attending the event and arrest them en-masse, charge them with horses, put them in cattle pens after removing their shoes on a cold hard floor, cram them in cells for hours and release them without charge. Whats wrong with that picture? We would never accept that for any other event, why isnt the same logic applied to political gatherings than the one applied to commercial gatherings? If you think about it a bit, well theres not many answers to that question.

[ShadowWulf]

Originally Posted by Taxi [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

the recent bailouts. Oxfam recently said that the money used to bail out banks could have eradicated extreme poverty off the face of the earth for 50 years. So although i dont think breaking windows is ever a good idea for a tactic or to make your point, i can understand where some of the anger might come from.

http://www.un.org/rights/poverty/poverty1.htm
(From a 1997 UN report on this issue)

The additional costs of providing basic social services for all indeveloping countries is estimated at about US $40 billion a year over the next 10 years. This amount is less than 0.2 per cent of the world income of US$ 25 trillion. The sum needed to close the gap between the annual income of poor people and the minimum income at which they would no longer be poor is estimated at another US$ 40 billion a year. Thus, to provide universal access to basic social services and transfers to alleviate income poverty would cost roughly US$ 80 billion, or less than the combined net worth of the seven richest people in the world.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Militar..._United_States

For the 2010 fiscal year, the president's base budget of the Department of Defense rose to $533.8 billion. Adding spending on "overseas contingency operations" brings the sum to $663.8 billion.[1][2]

When the budget was signed into law on October 28, 2009, the final size of the Department of Defense's budget was $680 billion, $16 billion more than President Obama had requested.[3][4] An additional $33 billion supplemental bill to support the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan was expected to pass in the spring of 2010, but has been delayed by the House of Representatives after passing the Senate.[5][6] Defense-related expenditures outside of the Department of Defense constitute between $216 billion and $361 billion in additional spending, bringing the total for defense spending to between $880 billion and $1.03 trillion in fiscal year 2010.

And ill say it again, fuck you America.

But oh no we cant help, because that might be Sooooociaaaaaalismmmmmmm ohhh boogey man coming to get ya!

[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Unfortunately ideas are so ingrained into the American psyche that only something totally spectacular, overwhelming and attention getting has any chance of being even moderately noticed. Hence the riots. The same applies to most of the western world with a few exceptions.
I will not condemn them for at least TRYING where most do nothing, their methods could definitely use some work however.

[Alawen Everywhere]

And all of this helps improve the world how?

I'd say the recent posts in this thread demonstrate that free speech is alive and well in both America and Canada. Both countries are so tolerant that most of the children smashing Starbuck's windows in their ninja pajamas won't even serve jail time, but instead will return safely to their suburban homes and dorm rooms paid for by daddy.

[mitic]

Originally Posted by Alawen Everywhere [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

And all of this helps improve the world how?

I'd say the recent posts in this thread demonstrate that free speech is alive and well in both America and Canada. Both countries are so tolerant that most of the children smashing Starbuck's windows in their ninja pajamas won't even serve jail time, but instead will return safely to their suburban homes and dorm rooms paid for by daddy.

so speaking of free speech and the like, death penalty has been abolished in the usa yet?

[Alawen Everywhere]

Originally Posted by mitic [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

so speaking of free speech and the like, death penalty has been abolished in the usa yet?

I think you already know the answer to that. That guy who beat his two-year-old stepdaughter to death in Texas because she wouldn't stop crying during the USA-Ghana game is definitely going to die.

I don't have a problem with that.

[Xenephex]

Originally Posted by mitic [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

so speaking of free speech and the like, death penalty has been abolished in the usa yet?

Austria?

Don't worry, we'll never catch up.

[astarothel]

the actual "vote for nobody" mural is from my city of downtown Guelph, Ontario just around the corner from a Chinese food restaurant. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]