Raiding scene changes proposal

[Fountree]

bump for Spaceman's post.

[Alarti0001]

Originally Posted by falkun [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Alarti, how does "Velious" change the raid scene any more than offering a new location for old problems? Sadly, I don't have any suggestions to offer myself, but "Velious" doesn't fix the problem. "Kunark" was supposed to fix the "Classic" problem, but it didn't.

More targets. Velious has 3x as many raid "bosses" as kunark and classic combined. It also has gearing raids which aren't "bosses". Arena, HoT, WToV, PoG, Manor. Maybe of the mobs also spawn more frequently than 1 week. This will allow people who havent' seen much of Kunark raids to experience them as well as allowing raids in Velious.

Kunark was never meant to fix the "classic" problem. There simply isnt enough raid real estate. This is part of the reason why Velious came out so close to Kunark's release on live. Kunark was designed as a leveling expansion with more raids and Epix. Velious was designed much more in a raid fashion. The only "raid zone" in Kunark is VP. I define a "raid zone" as a zone where you progress through raid content, that was designed for raiding specifically.

Velious has 4 or 5. Most of these raid zones will take significantly longer times to clear than VP.

[Alarti0001]

Originally Posted by isoka [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You might disagree with my vision of competition Alarti, but I feel like I'm in line with Zeelot's one. You would have noticed it if you took the time to read the introduction of my thread instead of jumping straight to a proposal open for modification and improvement (as long as I can have guild feedback rather than individual ones).

I read your entire post.
A guild is a collection of individuals. TMO is a democratic guild zeelot and other leaders constantly poll members opinions on what direction to take the guild. Sorry we aren't an autocratic automaton.

[Alarti0001]

Originally Posted by Raptur [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Like i said, the trolls keep flooding in LOL. Sorry these kids cant come together to many anything happen here.

There actually hasn't been much trolling going on. A troll is not someone who has a differing opinion. Trolling is an approach to a topic. You know like....calling people kids, or trolls hoping to achieve some reaction.

[falkun]

Originally Posted by Alarti0001 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

More targets. Velious has 3x as many raid "bosses" as kunark and classic combined. It also has gearing raids which aren't "bosses". Arena, HoT, WToV, PoG, Manor. Maybe of the mobs also spawn more frequently than 1 week. This will allow people who havent' seen much of Kunark raids to experience them as well as allowing raids in Velious.

But these gearing raids still have tiers and "eventually" (if not immediately) you will have the same issues you have in Kunark/Classic (which by your definition are "single tier" gearing, which I agree with). I personally feel its best for the Server to define these tiers, define the method of entry and inclusion into these tiers, and then let everyone have a piece of the pie. TMO's rank and file seems to feel that you fight for every piece of ground you wish to have. I don't think a consensus will be made between these two philosophies, and the "competition" philosophy is the lowest common denominator within the current raid rules.

My system doesn't work for everyone. Those that enjoy the PVP aspect of a PVE server (if you don't understand that, please feel free to excuse yourself from the conversation) will not enjoy it. But those who play on a PVE server for PVE challenges (albeit "easy", 13 year old ones) will have a fair playground to see the world they missed or remember from 13 years ago, free of drama. Both systems are expandable to accommodate additional content, but the "competition" philosophy creates a "trickle-down" effect while the "socialistic" philosophy allows persons and guilds to progress at their own pace.

People like Fountree (reference a different thread) would still have things to do in Kunark were this server to use the "socialistic" philosophy.

[Alarti0001]

Originally Posted by falkun [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

But these gearing raids still have tiers and "eventually" (if not immediately) you will have the same issues you have in Kunark/Classic (which by your definition are "single tier" gearing, which I agree with). I personally feel its best for the Server to define these tiers, define the method of entry and inclusion into these tiers, and then let everyone have a piece of the pie. TMO's rank and file seems to feel that you fight for every piece of ground you wish to have. I don't think a consensus will be made between these two philosophies, and the "competition" philosophy is the lowest common denominator within the current raid rules.

My system doesn't work for everyone. Those that enjoy the PVP aspect of a PVE server (if you don't understand that, please feel free to excuse yourself from the conversation) will not enjoy it. But those who play on a PVE server for PVE challenges (albeit "easy", 13 year old ones) will have a fair playground to see the world they missed or remember from 13 years ago, free of drama. Both systems are expandable to accommodate additional content, but the "competition" philosophy creates a "trickle-down" effect while the "socialistic" philosophy allows persons and guilds to progress at their own pace.

People like Fountree (reference a different thread) would still have things to do in Kunark were this server to use the "socialistic" philosophy.

Its not even about tiers its about the availibility of targets. The hardcore competition would exist on the harderst mobs that provide the best loot. But, honestly there isn't a guild out there who could compete with TMO on these targets, so the point is largely moot. The good stuff comes in with the length of times these raids can take. PoG gear may not be a TMO target but other guilds like BDA, FE, Full Circle, Asgard etc will benefit from trash and mini-boss kills there. Same goes for a large portion of kael armor drops(Thurg Armor). Once TMO is running through NToV(which wont take long) Vindi drops will lose most of the appeal. Also, he is what an 8 hr spawn?

Do you really think a TMO occupied in NToV is going to be able to make it quickly to a Dain, Vindi Velk, or Tormie pop?(provided variance is still in effect).

Velious will allow more casual raid teams to get a much larger "piece of the pie".

[Fael]

the game isn't perfect. Except it for what it is. 99.9% of these "fixes" are stupid. When velious comes out, things will be much much better. Perfect? No, but better. As good as this game will get.

Will velious content satisfy things years or two later, where three or four guilds on the server have geared up sufficiently to take down AoW? Probably not.

A few small minor changes to improve life is always appreciated. But all these crazy ass off-the-wall suggestions aren't helping anything.

I personally would like to play on a 1,000 person sullon zek style pvp server. But i accept that not everybody likes that version of eq. Other people should accept it when not everyone is keen on their off-the-wall vision of what would make p1999 better.

Dolic

[Kraftwerk]

I've read posts from TMO members stating they will carry around the turn in lute for Undead Bard just to get more Trak BPs, effectively continuing the Bard epic clock block. Velious sure to fix all problems though.

[falkun]

Alarti, TMO are the only people who BOTHER to compete on that level, not the only people who CAN compete on that level. Also, do you honestly think TMO are the only people who will be prepared for raids come Velious? There are at least two other guilds on the heels of TMO for Kunark content, why would we not be ready for Velious content?

What you are describing is the "trickle down" effect I mentioned in the post you quoted. What happens when no more trickling is required? All the guilds hit their proverbial "glass ceilings" and stagnate until the top leaves? That doesn't sound much different than the IB/TMO "transition".

A tiered socialistic system will allow for peaceful transitions of power, the #1 guild simply stops occupying its slot in the rotation and the rotations adjust dynamically based on member guilds while the PVE server remains about PVE challenges. But "peaceful" and "competition are in direct conflict with each other, I know. And so the lowest common denominator reigns.

[Alarti0001]

Originally Posted by falkun [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Alarti, TMO are the only people who BOTHER to compete on that level, not the only people who CAN compete on that level. Also, do you honestly think TMO are the only people who will be prepared for raids come Velious? There are at least two other guilds on the heels of TMO for Kunark content, why would we not be ready for Velious content?

What you are describing is the "trickle down" effect I mentioned in the post you quoted. What happens when no more trickling is required? All the guilds hit their proverbial "glass ceilings" and stagnate until the top leaves? That doesn't sound much different than the IB/TMO "transition".

A tiered socialistic system will allow for peaceful transitions of power, the #1 guild simply stops occupying its slot in the rotation and the rotations adjust dynamically based on member guilds while the PVE server remains about PVE challenges. But "peaceful" and "competition are in direct conflict with each other, I know. And so the lowest common denominator reigns.

Deajay, Currently TMO is the only guild who CAN compete on upper tier Velious raiding. Right now we are playing poorly because we don't care much and are severely bored. BDA and FE are playing at their best and still can't compete. Unless you change how you play you will not compete on that level. Can you get better, sure. Will you, who knows. Also, if you are comparing Kunark 32khp mobs with velious raiding you really have no idea whats going on.

Socialistic societies work best when there isn't scarcity. Right now raid targets are highly scarce based on demand. Velious will Decrease scarcity but it will definitely not eliminate it. I expect in velious you will find rotations in VP, on World dragons, and Trakanon, likely even innoruuk, naggy, vox and CT. I would definitely not expect it on the new content for quite a long time.