So your guns keep you safe?

[Daldolma]

Don't have time to read the whole study atm but did they account for the fact that a large number of urban shootings are perpetrated by gang members against other gang members -- most of whom are armed? Whether or not an average American is safer for owning a gun is hardly impacted by whether or not rival gangs are shooting each other at high rates.

We're not talking apples to apples if they're including gang or organized crime related violence. But the findings might be interesting if they managed to limit samples to home intrusions, for instance.

[Arclyte]

Yes, let's ignore common sense and every other piece of evidence and claim that bowing to the wishes of your attacker is better than being able to defend yourself.

What Penn researchers found was alarming – almost five Philadelphians were shot every day over the course of the study and about 1 of these 5 people died. The research team concluded that, although successful defensive gun uses are possible and do occur each year, the chances of success are low. People should rethink their possession of guns

The source of information is Philadelphia? LOL. A fair and unbiased case study to be sure.

[Arclyte]

I think I've said this somewhere else but it bears repeating:

There is no such thing as effective gun control. That ship sailed a long time ago. Everyone deep down knows that, but politicians, both liberal and conservative, use guns to scare voters--which is useful for getting votes, so this debate will never go away.

But by all means, keep slamming your head into that wall.

[Daldolma]

Originally Posted by Arclyte [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Yes, let's ignore common sense and every other piece of evidence and claim that bowing to the wishes of your attacker is better than being able to defend yourself.

It's not common sense. I could easily imagine a scenario in which, statistically speaking, you would be less likely to be shot and/or killed if you do not own a gun. Your chances of avoiding physical harm may be better if you are forced to avoid confrontation and/or adhere to criminal demands. When both parties have guns, violence may erupt where it may not have been necessary.

But that's just one possibility. I don't know. I'd like to see a truly representative study, but it'd be very hard to get that type of data. The problem is that a) reports of successful gun defense are not objective. People report successfully defending themselves when they shoot a round into the sky to scare away thieves that may or may not exist. Also, plenty of successful defenses are never reported at all. And b) particularly in urban environments, many people that own and carry guns are a self-selected collection of people more prone to being victims of gun violence. Some old lady living in a high rise with a doorman isn't exactly equivalent to a 19-year old youth involved in the drug trade. Whether or not that 19 year old is carrying a gun, he's at far greater risk of being shot.

It's mostly irrelevant, though. We're decades away from a serious discussion about limiting the right to own a gun at all. At best (or worst), we may be able to pass legislation limiting a person's ability to buy weapons with the capacity to kill dozens of people in a matter of minutes.

[Tarathiel]

swords are considered "arms" too, whose to say the founding fathers weren't talking about swords? lots of motherfuckers carried swords back then.

[Tarathiel]

guns are for pussies anyways

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[Twoberries]

55 Percent of Gun Deaths in America are Suicide - NOT ENOUGH!

Gun Deaths - International Comparisons
Gun deaths per 100,000 population (for the year indicated):

Homicide Suicide Other (inc Accident)

USA (2001) 3.98 5.92 0.36
Italy (1997) 0.81 1.1 0.07
Switzerland (1998) 0.50 5.8 0.10
Canada (2002) 0.4 2.0 0.04
Finland (2003) 0.35 4.45 0.10
Australia (2001) 0.24 1.34 0.10
France (2001) 0.21 3.4 0.49
England/Wales (2002) 0.15 0.2 0.03
Scotland (2002) 0.06 0.2 0.02
Japan (2002) 0.02 0.04 0

Oh fuck! unfortunately at that rate it's still gonna take a while. Keep it up though, thx.

[Alawen]

Originally Posted by Arclyte [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I think I've said this somewhere else but it bears repeating:

There is no such thing as effective gun control. That ship sailed a long time ago. Everyone deep down knows that, but politicians, both liberal and conservative, use guns to scare voters--which is useful for getting votes, so this debate will never go away.

But by all means, keep slamming your head into that wall.

I completely agree if you mean that there is no such thing as effective gun control except in every other developed country.

[Arclyte]

I hear Breivik only stopped killing people because he got tired of it

C/D?

[Orruar]

Read the article. The selection bias is astounding. How many of those shot do you think were gangbangers getting into a gang war? It's Philidelphia. I'd say about 98%. No wonder they found so many of the people being shot had a gun on them.