Camping Raid Mobs... gone on long enough ?!

[neem]

Originally Posted by iamjack [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

BOXING FTW!!

yep

I'd bet there is a large number of people boxing on this server. GM's say you get punished if you're caught but i'm sure they haven't caught many of them.

[Leokaiser]

I have no intention of raiding on this server (and am glad I didn't come here with the intention of doing so before discovering what the raiding situation was like), so hopefully my opinion on the matter will be regarded as neutral.

First, it is wrong to suggest that everyone who plays is greedy, out only for the best loot, or comptative in any way. I'm sure a significant number of the players here didn't raid in Classic (prior to Velious at least) yet still enjoyed playing EverQuest, and I'm sure many of those players are able to have an enjoyable time playing here without the promise of the phat loot they didn't get back in the day. I am one of those players.

Would I like to see Vox and Naggy? As said, I have no intentions of becomeing a raider, but yes, I would like to see the end-game content. I'm certain that, with the right attitude, when the time comes, I'll be able to tag along to one guild or another kill and be happy, regardless of whether I'm eligable to roll on loot or not. I'd just like to quash a generalisation made earlier in this thread.

To me, the whole eternal camping thing is somewhat unhealthy. Far be it from me to tell others how to spend their time (as I've spent an 'unhealthy' amount of time raiding in other games myself), but I do have to wonder how much fun it actually is. I understand the thrill of finally getting that much sought after piece of equipment, but it seems that thrill comes at a tremendous price here. Being the 'best' is hardly worth much if you are having no fun getting to and/or maintaining that status. Perhaps a large portion of the raiding community will disagree with me here, but noting the comments made regarding people burning out leads me to believe there is a kernel of truth in this.

I also have to disagree with the assumption that most casual players (or even the less dedicated guilds) want to have the same chance to get to see content or loot the best items as those who can dedicate a much larger portion of their time to the game. Rather, I would suggest that many of those people simply want a chance. You might say that anyone has a chance if they are good enough at mobilising and organising, but that is simply ignoring the time constraints placed on this type of player and the manner which mobs are claimed under the current rules. However, the previously discussed rotation system probably wouldn't make allowances for this type of player anyway, so without the top guilds being generous and simply letting other people have a go, I don't know what to suggest to ensure that casuals get a fighting chance.

The point about the players ever being far more savvy about the content than they were 10 years ago and thus being having the knowledge which allows them to shoot for the best items/camps is almost certainly correct. I imagine because of this, this server will see a higher number of people who want to raid than did back in the day, especially consider that this server is most appealing to those who were fanatical about the Classic EQ experience which, over time, became highly focused on raiding.

The amount of raid content won't change in proportion to the number of raiders though. If there is no room at the top for all the players who want to be there, I would guess many will simply move on (assuming burnout rate isn't high enough that room is perpetually created for new blood to move in, but even then it means players are leaving the server). If you are at the top, you might not care about this, as it's less competition for you, but to me that's a bit of a sad situation.

At the risk of being branded a heretic, allow me to ask a question I haven't seen posed before: If the raiding player base continues to grow which the amount of content remains static, might it not be a good idea to increase spawn timers on the set number of raid mobs that exist? Yes, yes, I know; 'it's not Classic!'. But, the way things appear to be going (from my addmittedly rather uninformed perspective), it might be for the good of the server.

I also have to ask: Is your quest to be the best so important that you are willing to deprive others the experience of having fun? I hearing talk about 'competition' more and more, but this isn't an e-sport; it's supposed to be just a game. This isn't intended to flame or provoke, but being nice and considering how your actions affect others usually brings its own rewards.

Just my 2pp.

tl;dr?

You probably wouldn't care what I have to say anyway [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

(lol at the suggestion a group of sporting professionals would resort to bombing to cripple the competion by-the-by. If you have to take the competition out, it would suggest you aren't the best at all!)

[Skope]

Originally Posted by rioisk [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

ts just like in real life, when you want something, you don't go up to a millionaire and say "its not fair, you got more than I do" then go whine to the government aka server admins "hey they got more than we do, take some from them and give it to me".

Millionaires didn't become millionaires by sitting around waiting for spawns in a free mmorpg. That's not skill. That doesn't show you are the best. It doesn't show anything except you play 24/7. We need to move away from this idea that the "best" equates to getting the most raid mobs. That only shows you have the time to play.

That being said, the current rules REWARD TIME. I think this is a sad, one dimensional way to look at raiding especially in a non-instanced game. What is the point in having a non-instanced environment if in all reality people are just WAITING for a spawn to be rewarded with gear. Considering the raid encounters now are basically no-fail if you have enough people/proper classes then the game is basically a food stamp line where those who wait in line the longest get the most stamps. I wouldn't call those people the best, just playing by the "rules" by dedicating a huge chunk of their time to the game.

I think this is what needs to change.

Classic was very much like this though, and EQ was, in general, until velious-era. It was just a matter of bringing enough people to clear and kill the mobs. PoSky was probably the only one that differed in that aspect because it actually required a 2-day raid to even get into the position to kill what you wanted (if you were smart about it you only had to do that once though). EQ was easy in its early stages has always been. Even during kunark i recall being a part of those 50+ swarm raids on CT that never went awry.

Tactics really start to show themselves when a raid force is underpowered in numbers. That's when it requires everyone participating to be more finely-tuned in their approach.

[YendorLootmonkey]

I never saw real end-game content until two expansions later in Live when the guilds that had the drive and the numbers and the ability to mobilize whenever for whatever had moved on from that content. I know other casual players here were in the same boat. Why should we expect this server to be any different?

You know whether you're a casual player or not. After ten years, if you haven't learned that the hardcore players will beat you out on the endgame content because they have the advantage of time over you, you're just being obstinate. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[rioisk]

No dispute that time advantage = win in most cases. I'm suggesting other guilds should have a chance to mitigate the time advantage by using other methods without rules preventing them. For example, IB may camp 24 hrs straight for a mob....but another guild could waltz in when it spawns and train them and cause them to wipe and have their force ready to kill the mob while IB rezzes. It would mitigate the time-commitment incentive and make it so that time isn't the only dimension of success.

[rioisk]

This would allow for player-made dimensions with its own politics/agreements/backstabbing/etc. Might cause drama but it would be the player's world.

[mitic]

Originally Posted by randomer [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Camping Raid Mobs etc... gone on long enough ? isnt it about time guilds/gms come to some sort of agreement ? this is pretty crazy the state of the raid game on the server,normal players should have at least a chance of reliving the classic raid experience on this server, this server is great but for the majority the way it stands now they will never get a chance at the most fun encounters in the game cause of the current raid rules this could be the downfall on this server unfortunately... so your thoughts on this please ? keep it clean! ffs

randomer
Junior Member

Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 1

[Teeny]

Originally Posted by rioisk [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

ts just like in real life, when you want something, you don't go up to a millionaire and say "its not fair, you got more than I do" then go whine to the government aka server admins "hey they got more than we do, take some from them and give it to me".

Millionaires didn't become millionaires by sitting around waiting for spawns in a free mmorpg. That's not skill. That doesn't show you are the best. It doesn't show anything except you play 24/7. We need to move away from this idea that the "best" equates to getting the most raid mobs. That only shows you have the time to play.

That being said, the current rules REWARD TIME. I think this is a sad, one dimensional way to look at raiding especially in a non-instanced game. What is the point in having a non-instanced environment if in all reality people are just WAITING for a spawn to be rewarded with gear. Considering the raid encounters now are basically no-fail if you have enough people/proper classes then the game is basically a food stamp line where those who wait in line the longest get the most stamps. I wouldn't call those people the best, just playing by the "rules" by dedicating a huge chunk of their time to the game.

I think this is what needs to change.

And obviously, the millionaire who has the money, did something to earn it most of the time. Just as they waited it out aka did something to get their loot. If I put more time/effort into something than you do, I SHOULD get the pay off. You're right, the people who get the kills have the time to throw at this game, and when you put it that way it sounds like the usual QQ casuals throw around, being that they want all the stuff that the people who put a lot of the time into the game have with less work. If you want gear, and you want to get gear, get organized, get people who play all the time in your guild so that you don't have to have someone sit and camp it for days.

I guess my point is, take it from them, don't expect them to hand it to you, because they won't. If you can't take it from them, then you don't necessarily deserve to have it. One of the best guilds in EQ until PoP was a small guild named Fires of Heaven, they used very small numbers and were very effective against raid mobs. Skill doesn't always equal gear, but time invested in a game will always trump skill. An average player who plays too much will have better gear than a great player who just plays every so often. More chances at item drops, more time trading in EC, more time for finding better groups like Efreeti and such.

I'm sorry you don't have the time [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.].

[mitic]

by the release of kunark i will laugh at them current campers (or another guild using batphone) who wasted their time camping/scouting bosses 24/7 in CLASSIC.

if they want this uber worthless shit in CLASSIC so badly then ffs let them

[nalkin]

Being in one of the top raiding guilds on the server I would like to throw in my 2 cents.

The current raiding set-up is not about skill its about time. While that is a form of competition its not one I would enjoy partaking in. I have no desire to sit for days in a zone waiting for something to pop. Which is unfortunate because I would really like to do end game content for the fun of it. I would like to see the rules be FFA, because that would be true competition. Then you wouldn't even need GM intervention as it would be, whoever loots the target, gets loot. The problem with it not being FFA is that you need rules and you need a way to enforce those rules. So GMs have to babysit all these raids which is slightly ridiculous.

On top of that, all that rules do is give the players a set of parameters to try to push to the limits and find loopholes around. The more loopholes players come up with, the more rules there will be. Soon it will have to be like a 100 page document with a bunch of clauses. Each guild will have to essentially have a lawyer cause no player is going to want to keep up with all the rules, but each guild will want to be able to tattle and point their finger at another guild the instance they break a rule so that they can get the target. It is stupid. Main problem is, kimmie nor myself are lawyers so we will have to get another player in our guild and then ima have to change the guildname, and no one wants that.