Raiding Question- TMO

[Alarti0001]

Originally Posted by Aeon [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Actually, on LIVE it was a rule called the "Play-nice policy" which prohibited shit like this. But for some reasons, the admins here have ignored that rule completely.

Oh ya?

[Alarti0001]

Originally Posted by Aeon [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Yup=) Go read it up if you wish!
On live GM's wouldn't recognize camps, and go by FTE rule on everything.
But the play-nice policy was there, so if someone moved into your camp and an issue occurred, the GM's would tell you both to share or get removed from zone.

Oh that is how it worked? So basically it was up to GM discretion? How is that different than what happened here? This also sounds like 1 camp content and not raid content.

[Ele]

Originally Posted by Aeon [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Yup=) Go read it up if you wish!
On live GM's wouldn't recognize camps, and go by FTE rule on everything.
But the play-nice policy was there, so if someone moved into your camp and an issue occurred, the GM's would tell you both to share or get removed from zone.

For every server, there was a different level of enforcement of the Play Nice Policy, and as many different raid scene scenarios, which is part of the issue people have to come to grips with when when playing on a single server having representatives and memories from so many different versions of "Live" raiding.

[Xadion]

the only official enforcement of a camp claim (group level content) that there ever was on veeshan was 2 parties roll for first kill of the camps named and then alternate. And that was only in rare instances where the gm could tell both of them arrived to the unclaimed camp around the same time... 90 percent of the other time they would tell the person that most recently got there to get out.

raids.... First in force and to engage...

the play nice stuff was in a patch note wasn't it? And it mostly was about group level content.... Raid scene was never ever play nice lol...at least on veeshan... Some of your other rotation or lottery servers look like a hippy community charity organization...lol

[Alarti0001]

Originally Posted by Aeon [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

No, you're talking about the play-nice ethic policy created by the masses (players).
There was a play-nice policy which counted on every server (except pvp servers to a degree)

The play-nice policy you're thinking of varied from server to server.
Some servers allowed leapfrogging, some didnt.

This however, didn't go under the Everquest Play-nice policy, since the gm's do not recognize camps (which mentioned in a post above).

The everquest Play-nice policy was to not to be rude, KS an already agro'ed mob, training, monopolizing a zone or camps (cause the gms want you to share everything)
Breaking the play-nice policy would end in a suspension and maybe even ban, if the actions commited were serious enough.
They somehow want(ed) everyone to participate in giving everyone a nice time online making friends and progressing.

Gap in gear between raiders and non raiders have always been their concern. On this server it's even a bigger gap, and it will be 10x bigger once velious is released, and when 70% of the server is running around in planar armor, and the other 30% (tmo ofc) will be in full Ntov/kael armor it won't be so much fun for the other 70% causal players if they keep getting trained and KSed, or even harassed.

This should obviously put in action on this server, if the Admins here care the slightest of the servers health. Because I certainly don't like to be trained intentionally when trying to solo King Tranix by a zergforce of 30 people from TMO, who apparently didn't even care for Tranix anyways, and were just after RF.

Klubba you trained me many times.

[Alarti0001]

Originally Posted by Aeon [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This is a copy paste:

1.1 Play Nice Policies - Activity within EverQuest

In addition to the general guidelines listed in section 1.0, players are also subject to these supplementary rules while playing EverQuest. While by no means an all-inclusive list of the do's and don'ts in EverQuest, it provides a suitable foundation by which the player can determine what activities are appropriate:

1. You may not steal kills.

Kill Stealing is defined as the killing of an NPC for any reason that is already fighting or pursuing another player or group that is prepared to engage that same NPC without that group's specific permission.

The intent of this rule is discourage and make note of habitual Kill Stealers, not to punish those who honestly try to work together or those who make an honest mistake. Its enforcement by the EverQuest Customer Service Staff will reflect this philosophy.

2. You may not ninjaloot.

Ninjalooting is defined as taking special equipment from a fallen creature without the express permission of those who killed the creature if they are in attendance.

The purpose of this rule is to stop those who stand near creatures that carry special items and attempt loot that equipment prior to it being looted by the rightful owner.

3. You must comply with arbitration for contested spawns.

There are cases where two or more groups wish to kill the same NPC or hunt in the same area. In these cases, the groups are required to compromise.

If an equitable compromise cannot be reached between the players prior to EverQuest Customer Service Staff involvement, the EQCSR will mandate a compromise. Any such compromise is final and not open to debate. Refusing to abide by these terms will be considered disruption and may result in disciplinary action.

It is therefore strongly suggested that the groups make every attempt to reach a compromise that they can live with prior to involving an EQCSR, who may mandate a compromise that does not suit you to the extent that a player-devised compromise would.

Note: A "group" in this case is defined as a party of one or more characters that are united in a common belief or goal and are capable of completing that goal.

4. Foul language is not permitted, in any language.

Excessive use of foul language in an inappropriate context, including swear words, real-world racial slurs, and other language that is not consistent with the fantasy environment and designed to hurt, will be considered a disruption. The existence of the filter (/filter) is not a license to be profane.

5. You may not harass others.

Harassment is defined as specifically targeting another player or group of players to harm or inconvenience them. As harassment can take many forms, the EQCSR involved will make a determination as to whether or not a "reasonable person" would feel harassed and act accordingly.

6. You may not disrupt the normal playability of a zone or area.

Zone/Area Disruption is defined as any activity designed to harm or inconvenience a number of groups rather than a specific player or group of players. This includes, but is not limited to::

o Monopolizing most or all of the kills in an area.

o Deliberately blocking a doorway or narrow area so other players cannot get past.

o Refusing to cooperate with the other parties at a contested spawn site after having been instructed to do so by an EQCSR.

o Making excessive and inappropriate use of public channels of communications (/shout, /ooc, etc.).

o Intentionally causing excessive zone latency (creating excessive corpses, abusing spell effects, etc.).

o Causing intentional experience loss to other players (deliberately impeding fleeing players by blocking their escape route, intentionally training NPCs on other players, etc.).



7. You may not defraud other players.

Fraud is defined as falsely representing one's intentions to make a gain at another's expense. Examples of this activity include, but are not limited to, using deception to deprive another player of items, slandering another player or impersonating them with the intention of causing harm to that player's reputation, or falsely representing one's identity in order to gain access to another player's account or account information.

Fraud in all transactions between players may result in disciplinary action when confirmed by an EQCSR.



8. You may not abuse other players or Customer Service Representatives.

The following actions would be considered abuse:

o Hate Mongering - participation in or propagation of Hate literature, behavior, or propaganda related to real -world characteristics.

o Sexual Abuse or Harassment - untoward and/or unwelcome advances of a graphic and sexual nature. This includes, but is not limited to, virtual rape, overt sexual overtures, and stalking of a sexual nature.

o Attempting to Defraud a CS Representative - Petitioning with false information with the intent of receiving benefits as a result. This includes reporting bug deaths, experience or item loss, or accusing other players of wrongdoing without basis for it.

o Impersonating a Customer Service Representative - falsely representing yourself to another player as a Guide or a Verant Interactive employee.

o CS Personnel Abuse - This includes, but is not limited to, sending excessive /petitions (as an individual or group), sending excessive /tells to a CS Representative, excessively using say or other channels to communicate to a CS Representative, making physical threats, or using abusive language against a CS Representative.

o Implying Favoritism by EQCSRs - Stating that employees of SOE or members of the Guide program will show favor towards one or more parties involved in any given situation. This includes, but is not limited to, using threats of retribution or inferring that you will not be held accountable for your actions due to special consideration.

Note: This list is not all-inclusive. Other actions may be determined as abuse at the discretion of the EQCSR.



9. "Role-playing" does not grant license to violate these rules.

Though EverQuest is a Role-playing game, the claim of "Role-play" will not be accepted in defense of any of the anti-social behaviors mentioned above. We strongly encourage role-playing, but cannot allow it to be done at the expense of others.

10. You may not operate a guild that habitually violates these rules.

Disciplinary issues involving guilds may be addressed with the entire guild. Guilds whose members habitually violate these rules may be issued guild warnings, and can even be permanently disbanded.

Guild Leaders and/or officers may be held accountable for any actions of their guild members, in addition to any other actions that may be taken. It is therefore the responsibility of the guild leadership to ensure that all guild members abide by these rules.

You want GM's to do this for employment you better start paying their salary.

[Slave]

Originally Posted by Alarti0001 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Oh that is how it worked? So basically it was up to GM discretion? How is that different than what happened here? This also sounds like 1 camp content and not raid content.

It is extremely shocking to me that Alarti didn't have a clue what Live was like. Extremely shocking.

[McMuffins]

Originally Posted by Aeon [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This is a copy paste:

1.1 Play Nice Policies - Activity within EverQuest

In addition to the general guidelines listed in section 1.0, players are also subject to these supplementary rules while playing EverQuest. While by no means an all-inclusive list of the do's and don'ts in EverQuest, it provides a suitable foundation by which the player can determine what activities are appropriate:

1. You may not steal kills.

Kill Stealing is defined as the killing of an NPC for any reason that is already fighting or pursuing another player or group that is prepared to engage that same NPC without that group's specific permission.

The intent of this rule is discourage and make note of habitual Kill Stealers, not to punish those who honestly try to work together or those who make an honest mistake. Its enforcement by the EverQuest Customer Service Staff will reflect this philosophy.

2. You may not ninjaloot.

Ninjalooting is defined as taking special equipment from a fallen creature without the express permission of those who killed the creature if they are in attendance.

The purpose of this rule is to stop those who stand near creatures that carry special items and attempt loot that equipment prior to it being looted by the rightful owner.

3. You must comply with arbitration for contested spawns.

There are cases where two or more groups wish to kill the same NPC or hunt in the same area. In these cases, the groups are required to compromise.

If an equitable compromise cannot be reached between the players prior to EverQuest Customer Service Staff involvement, the EQCSR will mandate a compromise. Any such compromise is final and not open to debate. Refusing to abide by these terms will be considered disruption and may result in disciplinary action.

It is therefore strongly suggested that the groups make every attempt to reach a compromise that they can live with prior to involving an EQCSR, who may mandate a compromise that does not suit you to the extent that a player-devised compromise would.

Note: A "group" in this case is defined as a party of one or more characters that are united in a common belief or goal and are capable of completing that goal.

4. Foul language is not permitted, in any language.

Excessive use of foul language in an inappropriate context, including swear words, real-world racial slurs, and other language that is not consistent with the fantasy environment and designed to hurt, will be considered a disruption. The existence of the filter (/filter) is not a license to be profane.

5. You may not harass others.

Harassment is defined as specifically targeting another player or group of players to harm or inconvenience them. As harassment can take many forms, the EQCSR involved will make a determination as to whether or not a "reasonable person" would feel harassed and act accordingly.

6. You may not disrupt the normal playability of a zone or area.

Zone/Area Disruption is defined as any activity designed to harm or inconvenience a number of groups rather than a specific player or group of players. This includes, but is not limited to::

o Monopolizing most or all of the kills in an area.

o Deliberately blocking a doorway or narrow area so other players cannot get past.

o Refusing to cooperate with the other parties at a contested spawn site after having been instructed to do so by an EQCSR.

o Making excessive and inappropriate use of public channels of communications (/shout, /ooc, etc.).

o Intentionally causing excessive zone latency (creating excessive corpses, abusing spell effects, etc.).

o Causing intentional experience loss to other players (deliberately impeding fleeing players by blocking their escape route, intentionally training NPCs on other players, etc.).



7. You may not defraud other players.

Fraud is defined as falsely representing one's intentions to make a gain at another's expense. Examples of this activity include, but are not limited to, using deception to deprive another player of items, slandering another player or impersonating them with the intention of causing harm to that player's reputation, or falsely representing one's identity in order to gain access to another player's account or account information.

Fraud in all transactions between players may result in disciplinary action when confirmed by an EQCSR.



8. You may not abuse other players or Customer Service Representatives.

The following actions would be considered abuse:

o Hate Mongering - participation in or propagation of Hate literature, behavior, or propaganda related to real -world characteristics.

o Sexual Abuse or Harassment - untoward and/or unwelcome advances of a graphic and sexual nature. This includes, but is not limited to, virtual rape, overt sexual overtures, and stalking of a sexual nature.

o Attempting to Defraud a CS Representative - Petitioning with false information with the intent of receiving benefits as a result. This includes reporting bug deaths, experience or item loss, or accusing other players of wrongdoing without basis for it.

o Impersonating a Customer Service Representative - falsely representing yourself to another player as a Guide or a Verant Interactive employee.

o CS Personnel Abuse - This includes, but is not limited to, sending excessive /petitions (as an individual or group), sending excessive /tells to a CS Representative, excessively using say or other channels to communicate to a CS Representative, making physical threats, or using abusive language against a CS Representative.

o Implying Favoritism by EQCSRs - Stating that employees of SOE or members of the Guide program will show favor towards one or more parties involved in any given situation. This includes, but is not limited to, using threats of retribution or inferring that you will not be held accountable for your actions due to special consideration.

Note: This list is not all-inclusive. Other actions may be determined as abuse at the discretion of the EQCSR.



9. "Role-playing" does not grant license to violate these rules.

Though EverQuest is a Role-playing game, the claim of "Role-play" will not be accepted in defense of any of the anti-social behaviors mentioned above. We strongly encourage role-playing, but cannot allow it to be done at the expense of others.

10. You may not operate a guild that habitually violates these rules.

Disciplinary issues involving guilds may be addressed with the entire guild. Guilds whose members habitually violate these rules may be issued guild warnings, and can even be permanently disbanded.

Guild Leaders and/or officers may be held accountable for any actions of their guild members, in addition to any other actions that may be taken. It is therefore the responsibility of the guild leadership to ensure that all guild members abide by these rules.

This.

[Loly Taa]

Originally Posted by Aeon [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Actually, on LIVE it was a rule called the "Play-nice policy" which prohibited shit like this. But for some reasons, the admins here have ignored that rule completely.

Actually on "live" GM's rarely if ever did anything except force groups fighting over The Ghoul Lord to roll for the spawn, and that was if you could get a GM to even reply to your petition.

CSR here is leaps and bounds above live. Verant/Sony did not have the sort of tools back then that Sirken and Ephi have now.

I remember on live, people got trained all the fucking time. I never once heard of a GM disbanding any top guild, hell. On live you could cheat like crazy and get away with it- you still can to this day. You could get away with training all day every day unless you were doing it so often the GMs were bombed with petitions and decided to follow you around GM-invis and catch you in the act.

There's a reason there's no play nice policy here, because it was only enforced on live on petty camp disputes. If people got banned for training on live, Ikikgud would've been booted from Fennin LONG before he was training us regularly (and blatantly) in Vex Thal.

You do realize the bad blood between TMO and their rivals on Fennin is exactly why Vulak was turned into a ring event, don't you? In one instance on Fennin Ro, the solution to a dispute over who got North Temple of Veeshan one night was solved by a GM-forced guildwar.

Lets not talk about who knows what about live, you're bound to look really fucking dumb eventually.

[JerSar]

Originally Posted by Aeon [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This is a copy paste:

1.1 Play Nice Policies - Activity within EverQuest

In addition to the general guidelines listed in section 1.0, players are also subject to these supplementary rules while playing EverQuest. While by no means an all-inclusive list of the do's and don'ts in EverQuest, it provides a suitable foundation by which the player can determine what activities are appropriate:

1. You may not steal kills.

Kill Stealing is defined as the killing of an NPC for any reason that is already fighting or pursuing another player or group that is prepared to engage that same NPC without that group's specific permission.

The intent of this rule is discourage and make note of habitual Kill Stealers, not to punish those who honestly try to work together or those who make an honest mistake. Its enforcement by the EverQuest Customer Service Staff will reflect this philosophy.

2. You may not ninjaloot.

Ninjalooting is defined as taking special equipment from a fallen creature without the express permission of those who killed the creature if they are in attendance.

The purpose of this rule is to stop those who stand near creatures that carry special items and attempt loot that equipment prior to it being looted by the rightful owner.

3. You must comply with arbitration for contested spawns.

There are cases where two or more groups wish to kill the same NPC or hunt in the same area. In these cases, the groups are required to compromise.

If an equitable compromise cannot be reached between the players prior to EverQuest Customer Service Staff involvement, the EQCSR will mandate a compromise. Any such compromise is final and not open to debate. Refusing to abide by these terms will be considered disruption and may result in disciplinary action.

It is therefore strongly suggested that the groups make every attempt to reach a compromise that they can live with prior to involving an EQCSR, who may mandate a compromise that does not suit you to the extent that a player-devised compromise would.

Note: A "group" in this case is defined as a party of one or more characters that are united in a common belief or goal and are capable of completing that goal.

4. Foul language is not permitted, in any language.

Excessive use of foul language in an inappropriate context, including swear words, real-world racial slurs, and other language that is not consistent with the fantasy environment and designed to hurt, will be considered a disruption. The existence of the filter (/filter) is not a license to be profane.

5. You may not harass others.

Harassment is defined as specifically targeting another player or group of players to harm or inconvenience them. As harassment can take many forms, the EQCSR involved will make a determination as to whether or not a "reasonable person" would feel harassed and act accordingly.

6. You may not disrupt the normal playability of a zone or area.

Zone/Area Disruption is defined as any activity designed to harm or inconvenience a number of groups rather than a specific player or group of players. This includes, but is not limited to::

o Monopolizing most or all of the kills in an area.

o Deliberately blocking a doorway or narrow area so other players cannot get past.

o Refusing to cooperate with the other parties at a contested spawn site after having been instructed to do so by an EQCSR.

o Making excessive and inappropriate use of public channels of communications (/shout, /ooc, etc.).

o Intentionally causing excessive zone latency (creating excessive corpses, abusing spell effects, etc.).

o Causing intentional experience loss to other players (deliberately impeding fleeing players by blocking their escape route, intentionally training NPCs on other players, etc.).



7. You may not defraud other players.

Fraud is defined as falsely representing one's intentions to make a gain at another's expense. Examples of this activity include, but are not limited to, using deception to deprive another player of items, slandering another player or impersonating them with the intention of causing harm to that player's reputation, or falsely representing one's identity in order to gain access to another player's account or account information.

Fraud in all transactions between players may result in disciplinary action when confirmed by an EQCSR.



8. You may not abuse other players or Customer Service Representatives.

The following actions would be considered abuse:

o Hate Mongering - participation in or propagation of Hate literature, behavior, or propaganda related to real -world characteristics.

o Sexual Abuse or Harassment - untoward and/or unwelcome advances of a graphic and sexual nature. This includes, but is not limited to, virtual rape, overt sexual overtures, and stalking of a sexual nature.

o Attempting to Defraud a CS Representative - Petitioning with false information with the intent of receiving benefits as a result. This includes reporting bug deaths, experience or item loss, or accusing other players of wrongdoing without basis for it.

o Impersonating a Customer Service Representative - falsely representing yourself to another player as a Guide or a Verant Interactive employee.

o CS Personnel Abuse - This includes, but is not limited to, sending excessive /petitions (as an individual or group), sending excessive /tells to a CS Representative, excessively using say or other channels to communicate to a CS Representative, making physical threats, or using abusive language against a CS Representative.

o Implying Favoritism by EQCSRs - Stating that employees of SOE or members of the Guide program will show favor towards one or more parties involved in any given situation. This includes, but is not limited to, using threats of retribution or inferring that you will not be held accountable for your actions due to special consideration.

Note: This list is not all-inclusive. Other actions may be determined as abuse at the discretion of the EQCSR.



9. "Role-playing" does not grant license to violate these rules.

Though EverQuest is a Role-playing game, the claim of "Role-play" will not be accepted in defense of any of the anti-social behaviors mentioned above. We strongly encourage role-playing, but cannot allow it to be done at the expense of others.

10. You may not operate a guild that habitually violates these rules.

Disciplinary issues involving guilds may be addressed with the entire guild. Guilds whose members habitually violate these rules may be issued guild warnings, and can even be permanently disbanded.

Guild Leaders and/or officers may be held accountable for any actions of their guild members, in addition to any other actions that may be taken. It is therefore the responsibility of the guild leadership to ensure that all guild members abide by these rules.

I think that this should be the way it is.