Starting a warrior

[mitic]

i did actually tank with my bard up to mid 40ies...even royals in solb where np. but i gona bet all my current gear that a warrior/knight would consume less healing mana than a bard

[astuce999]

Originally Posted by mitic [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

i did actually tank with my bard up to mid 40ies...even royals in solb where np. but i gona bet all my current gear that a warrior/knight would consume less healing mana than a bard

Just to make sure we compare apples to apples,

Bard playing slow + mana song vs. Tank with no slows and no mana song you're betting at end of fight healer has more mana with Tank than with Bard.

What kind of gear do you have?

Astuce Subterfuge
Bard of the 44th Song

[pickled_heretic]

Originally Posted by astuce999 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Just to make sure we compare apples to apples,

Bard playing slow + mana song vs. Tank with no slows and no mana song you're betting at end of fight healer has more mana with Tank than with Bard.

What kind of gear do you have?

Astuce Subterfuge
Bard of the 44th Song

What kind of group are you in where you don't have an enchanter? doesn't any decent group without a bard have an enchanter?

[Omnimorph]

bards lol.

I can rune myself whilst i tank. Between Tash and self rune i can tank with no healing!

Well yeah a warrior with a weapon that doesn't proc won't hold aggro, but i was just saying they'd be better dps [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] You said they do more dmg than knights once they hit 37 and it starts proccing, i was being pedantic saying they still had better dps before this.

Just ignore me and continue.

[Weekapaug]

Originally Posted by mitic [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

a warrior starts to outdps a knight with 2ssoys at the lvl they start to proc (lvl 39?). up to this lvl the knight will be better in the dps sector since they can wield whatever they want (mith2h comes to mind).

besides that, a knight can go fully STR (=added dmg) on equipment since aggro can be easily generated by their spells. different story on warriors as already mentioned in above posts.

The damage tables on knights are lower than warriors, so no matter what their STR is, the ATK it generates on a Pally or SK will still be calculated into actual damage lower than it will on a warrior. Of the 3 tanks, warriors are supposed to out dps the other two, and they definately do post-Classic.

This tuning came into the game sometime during Kunark when it became known that warriors with certain weapons were out DPSing monks with the same weapons.....Jade Maces, as I recall, and as I recall it goes like this:

Melee DPS was rebalanced with Rogue > Monk > Ranger > Warrior > Hybrid (sans ranger) melee dps in mind, when the Rogue has the back of the mob. If, not, swap Monk and Rogue in that. The only hybrid that out-DPSes any pure melee with the same weapon is the Ranger because it is a DPS class and their damage table calculates their damage output accordingly. The rest are at the end of the line, as they should be based on their untility and other methods of doing damage. Among the hybrids it goes Ranger > Bard > Pally / SK. Of all melee classes, Paladins and Shadow Knights are dead last on the totem pole.

And bear in mind that none of this has anything to do with gear, str, buffs or anything else. It's built into the actual math of the combat calculations for each class.

Hybrid tanks are already at a disadvantage AC-wise compared to warriors, they really shouldn't be encouraged to emphasise STR when they should be seeking out every bit of AC on every slot they can. DPS on a tank is really a moot point anyway. Thats what DPS classes are for. Pallys and Shadow Knights that use 2 handers are cheating themselves (and the clerics that heal them) out of a lot of AC by not using shields, IMO.

And that's the problem with Classic Era EQ where tanks are concerned. The ease at which hybrid tanks can hold aggro and the lack of serious consequences in most cases for not gearing properly, confusing rangers and bards with actual tanks, etc. etc. not only gives warriors a bad rap, but it makes it all too easy to get by with things that will abruptly come to an end post 50. A hybrid tank with a 2 hander who sacrificed AC for STR thinking he's DPS too, or a bard or ranger who thinks he can tank is going to get smacked down in high level Kunark so fast it won't even be funny.

[Weekapaug]

Originally Posted by mitic [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

yep, personaly i would go fully STA myself and try to get my hands on DEX armor like cloak of shadows (+13 dex?).... procs start to hit more often above the 100 mark.

STR can be completely disregarded till the warrior reaches the planes levels. they aint DPS, they are primary here to shield the rest of the group folks!

if you want to do dmg too, go knight.

The DEX on the Cloak of Shadows is a wonderful extra for warriors, but for any tank, the real value of the cloak is the 12 AC....Best AC cloak pre-planes in classic EQ, as far as I know.

Warriors prioritize 1 AC (worn) = 6 HPs, so the 2 extra AC on the CoS likely doesn't warrant sacrificing the HPs found on on a HBC or CoF for a warrior (my live accounts arent active or I would go look and tell you for sure), unless he most definately needs that extra DEX for holding aggro. Especially the CoF, being a haste item on top of a great tank cloak AC and Stat wise, allowing the tank to wear a real belt rather than an FBSS. You don't need procs to go off constantly to do DPS as a tank....You just need enough to take and hold aggro. There is a difference.

Hybrid tanks, or bards for that matter, "aint DPS" either. If you want to do DPS, be a DPS class. If you want to be a tank, gear yourself accordingly by maximizing your AC on every slot with a bit of leeway for gear that gives you extra HPS. End of Story. With the exception of warriors, who should have ONLY enough extra DEX as needed to proc enough to reliably take and hold aggro.

And if you, as any tank, find yourself just oozing AC and HPs out the ears in current content so much that your cleric constantly has the extra mana to let you deviate from that, which you probably won't unless they are uber with a manastone and rubi BP, then go with resist gear. With the OP situation of caster mobs here you will find that goes a lot farther to contributing to your role than a miniscule extra amount of DPS that you might generate with extra STR or DEX gear.

[Taluvill]

Originally Posted by Weekapaug [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

And that's the problem with Classic Era EQ where tanks are concerned. The ease at which hybrid tanks can hold aggro and the lack of serious consequences in most cases for not gearing properly, confusing rangers and bards with actual tanks, etc. etc. not only gives warriors a bad rap, but it makes it all too easy to get by with things that will abruptly come to an end post 50. A hybrid tank with a 2 hander who sacrificed AC for STR thinking he's DPS too, or a bard or ranger who thinks he can tank is going to get smacked down in high level Kunark so fast it won't even be funny.

TBH, this gimps many new players to EQ and Noobier players because you wont get shit done post 50 with a dps SK/Paladin. You need a Tank pally, a tank sk, or a good war to do a lot of content, especially raiding.

[Yoite]

well here is my experience on the tank dps deal. my current toon im playing in my pally, lvl 30. I have a blued two handed hammer and ghoulbane + scute shield. The shield is nice with 9sta and 15ac, but my dps is so much better with the 2h hammer that stuff dies faster and i require less healing than the 9sta and 15ac reduce incoming damage. this was true even at 29 and below when the hammer didnt proc, now that it procs its even better.

the exception obviously is vs undead but that is b/c of the OP proc on the ghoulbane.

[Yoite]

although i still recommend maxing your ac and hp in every slot you can as opposed to str or dex as a tank. just stating that i think 2handers are better than 1h + shield.

[Omnimorph]

In classic, and pretty much until velious raid gear, knights didn't get the truly nice dmg/dly 1 handers. Massive dragonclaw shard, Ntov loot etc. So a 2 hander will ALWAYS do considerably more damage than a 1 hander + shield, and due to there being an issue with the ac cap on this server (or so i'm told) then AC from a shield isn't that much of a benefit.

So yeah, a 2 hander is probably the best option.