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[Alawen]

Originally Posted by deneauth [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Which part was I wrong about though, the part where RMT is not a big issue, the part where I don't care or the part where RMT is against the rules?

Our differences in opinion are in the significance of RMT to the server and the use of words like right and wrong when discussing the problem.

I think there is certainly RMT activity. Someone will always feel clever by turning their hobby into a $2 an hour job. Someone else will be that desperate or living in a deflated economy where $2 an hour isn't so bad. On this server, we don't have large numbers of anonymous players who do nothing but farm and sell the proceeds. I wasn't around for the IB departure, but I suspect there was some overstatement of their net proceeds as a face-saving gesture. I find it very difficult to believe that there are enough buyers for a large and on-going RMT market. I would guess that the typical buyer will spend $50 or $100 on some platinum, but that there aren't enough of those for anyone to be making thousands a month. The numbers just don't work.

As for trying to turn this into a moral issue, that has always been absurd. EverQuest is a game, a toy. Verant/Sony sold it to us and charged us a monthly fee. Their attempt to dictate how we could use that toy and what we could do with it when we lost interest was always legally questionable. Can I sell you a car and tell you that you have to buy my brand of tires or the car will be remotely disabled? Can I sell you a pair of jeans and force you to buy a new pair every month or the originals will somehow become shabby? Those are the sort of business practices covered by the RICO act and those practices ARE legally criminal. People go to jail for that.

The Sony EULA is an example of a shrink-wrap license--we couldn't see it until after we bought the game and it was confirmed by a couple of clicks, not by a signature. That creates a really fuzzy contract with a lot of major holes.

Now we come to the legal questions surrounding all of these emulator servers. Do they infringe on copyrights? Will the portions of the EULA regarding reverse engineering hold up in court? To further complicate matters, there are countries which specifically prohibit some of these strategies. If I go reverse engineer your software in NoEULAstan, am I breaking any laws if I then sell it or give it away to Americans? What if I'm a citizen of NoEULAstan? Laws even vary from state to state within the U.S. and there are conflicting precedents about many software licensing practices. There has been no court decision about whether EULAs are generally enforceable.

What is undeniably illegal is downloading the Titanium client from a non-Sony source. It's piracy.

At the end of this twisted and ill-defined road of contract law and intellectual property, we come to the moral question of selling P99 platinum. Is it clear cut enough to call it right or wrong? I say no. If we are discussing facts, what we can say with confidence that it is against server rules and that it exposes both buyer and seller to banning and loss of virtual assets in excess of the actual RMT transaction. It then becomes a consideration of risk versus reward. The risk would seem higher for the seller in most cases, making the decision to sell virtual goods even more questionable.

There is apparently some level of RMT here in the shady underbelly of Project 1999. Unless there are a couple very wealthy guys making an awful lot of purchases, the likelihood of that volume being significant in terms of total dollars is very low. Attempting to frame the issue in moral terms is just silly; Jesus doesn't care if you sell platinum or cheat at solitaire.

[Calabee]

meow

[deneauth]

I agree with everything you just said. I was only taking it as far as being a bannable offense though. You went pretty in depth here. All I am really trying to say is it doesn't matter all that much if RMT happens on his server because its difficult to catch a transaction in game and hen you have to determine If the items or platinum changing hands was purchased with real money or not. To be honest i dont know how one would go about proving it to begin with. Technically speaking real money transactions can mess with he in game economy and if by some off chance some official caught wind of it the project can be shut down but of course I don't expect that to happen. Morally speaking i would not do it because I think its wrong but the risk of getting caught is extremely low so if others want to do it I won't judge them. If I ever did some how stumble anon a RMT transaction which I could prove I would report it though.

[deneauth]

Typing from my HTC Thunderbolt my apologies for the spelling. More damn you auto correct moments.

[Alawen]

I'm really damned hungover so incapable of doing much beyond typing at the moment.

I'm still stuck on your use of the word "wrong." That implies a judgment that I think just doesn't apply to how someone plays a video game. Is griefing on a PVP server right or wrong? I don't think that's possible. It's not real. The guy getting griefed can log out at any moment he chooses.

I also think a judgment like that requires some insane level of cognitive dissonance; if you're going to be a hardcore absolute moralist, you can't play on this server because of the reverse engineering and downloaded client that make it possible.

[deneauth]

I hear you on the hangover, I watched MSU lose one depressing game against Notre Dame last night while getting hammered and discussing RMT haha. I am not some crazy moral person who simplifies everything into rights or wrongs, by wrong I just simply meant against the rules. Eat some pancakes and drink some gatorade and feel better man. Talk to you later

[Barkingturtle]

RMT is wrong because the means for acquiring and growing the wealth of your character are all provided in-game. Essentially, RMT is analogous to employing third-party programs to influence the game in ways the developers did not intend. In this case, the third party program is "Putting on something other than your jizz-stained sweatpants and getting a fucking job".

[Safon]

Gotta agree that RMT letting shitty players get the best lewt/characters is lame. I like earning what I have in games, seeing scrubs (who may be great people otherwise, but still) sporting the same things that a skilled player has detracts heavily from a game, just in my opinion.

Don't have the freedom to put in the time? Well, that's life, it will happen to all of us sooner or later. I'm a student for now, and I really hope that once I'm graduated with a job I won't be buying up characters and gear with real money.

[SyanideGas]

Originally Posted by Alawen [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I did last week, actually. The guy who won it had been contributing in the group. He didn't get lost in the maze a single time and I never had to cast rez on him three times before he was paying attention and took one of them. He wasn't a pet class, but I bet if he was, he wouldn't have spent half an hour following the group around without a pet. I congratulated him.

He was a much better player than Skarry, the fucking retard who is an officer in your shitbucket of a guild.

Well with one cleric in the group, im pretty sure you're aware of the fact that its probably your fault if someone dies. Can't really evade on a mage brah. Was staring at the screen the whole time and never saw a rez box pop up once until the group told you I was still dead... Also, when you get rezzed im pretty sure you're oom and can't summon a pet for a few mins, so I was following yall around till I had mana to summon one.

So if you wanna put me on the spot, atleast know what you're talking about.

[Tarathiel]

Originally Posted by Alawen [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

wall of text defending RMT and the shit bags who do it