Game Mechanics: Pulling while Invisible

[Nizzarr]

Originally Posted by Rellapse5 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

on Eqmac i am ally to chardok i cannot invis pull singles, they all social

case closed. Fix this shit asap.

[CrystalBlue]

Originally Posted by Rellapse5 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

on Eqmac i am ally to chardok i cannot invis pull singles, they all social

I'll have to admit what is going on here with invisi pulling the whole zone is just as bad as the "perma pac" bug on EQmac. Sucks the fun straight out of the game.

[Treats]

It was stated earlier that they talked about this at the Dallas Fan Faire in 2001 -- It was actually in January of 2002.

I don't see how this is possible when I found this post dated 5/31/2001:

https://groups.google.com/forum/?fro...st/jzcWAsNclWU

The last was the most devious, but also totally explainable.
I was in SolA. A goblin shaman was green to me, and thus too chicken to
attack me. However, he could see me, and this allowed him to share his hate
list with everyone around him. Meaning me. This is effectively a 0 mana,
instantaneous cast of see invis for every mob within normal aggro range (and
through walls).
This, still, didn't matter, until a Blue to Me non-casting melee goblin
of some description, wandered by. While he couldn't see me, he could take
the hate list of the shaman, and poof, he could instantly attack me. (I
love how invisibility doesn't actually make you invisible).
The kicker is, that since a BTM had aggroed on me... all the little
greenies took courage from him, and joined the fight.
So when I gated, I was busy bandaging quickly trying to fight the DOT
that that little shaman had stung me with... grrr, should have blasted it
out of its boots before it got help.

This is 6 months after Velious was released.

[Nirgon]

Originally Posted by Nizzarr [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

case closed. Fix this shit asap.

Verified on EQ Mac.

Nirgon and Nizzar agree (I really have no reason to agree with him on anything, yet here I am).

This is an essential fix to keep things fun and challenging. I would have thought this was an obvious fix as well. "Oh hey! People are using invis to single pull, how'd that get in there?"

Originally Posted by CrystalBlue [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'll have to admit what is going on here with invisi pulling the whole zone is just as bad as the "perma pac" bug on EQmac. Sucks the fun straight out of the game.

Another one of my least faves but he's right!

[uygi]

I would just like to ask what the mechanic is that makes sneak different than invis, since the mob not being able to see the player is supposedly irrelevant. Or would your proposed fix apply to sneak as well?

[Nirgon]

Sneak allows you to retain "hide" where having invis casted on you does not. Minor difference, maybe not even worth noting. I think it was revealed here that another bug is in place that if you are under the effects of sneak/hide having an invis break from you during it makes it permanent. Relapse posted this somewhere, go test here.

Sneak + hide also grants invis + invis to undead, where invis is just to normal mobs that can't see invis.

Entirely obvious and probably not the answer you were looking for... but, what specifically do you mean?

If you're asking if someone should be able to single pull using sneak? Absolutely not, same with invis / invis to undead. I think, as Ambrotos pointed out, mob hate lists are not working correctly.

[Lucky]

who gives a fuk if it works on eqmac or not. it wasnt nerfed in like the 45th expansion literally and proll done crossed over there

just another classic straying

[Nirgon]

It doesn't allow single pulling on a "as it was" PoP server.

There is no patch note for it. Even better, it is just silly.

[uygi]

Originally Posted by Nirgon [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Sneak allows you to retain "hide" where having invis casted on you does not. Minor difference, maybe not even worth noting. I think it was revealed here that another bug is in place that if you are under the effects of sneak/hide having an invis break from you during it makes it permanent. Relapse posted this somewhere, go test here.

Sneak + hide also grants invis + invis to undead, where invis is just to normal mobs that can't see invis.

Entirely obvious and probably not the answer you were looking for... but, what specifically do you mean?

If you're asking if someone should be able to single pull using sneak? Absolutely not, same with invis / invis to undead. I think, as Ambrotos pointed out, mob hate lists are not working correctly.

That's not what I'm talking about.

Monks pull by tagging and running back, then FDing. They then sneak, so that when the mobs turn their backs to go home, they can't see the monk. The monk then tags again while sneaking, and only the mob that was attacked will notice because the others can't "see" the monk. As I'm sure you know, mobs can always "see" players they have aggro on. As has been said, Verant never had any idea FD would be used this way when they gave it to the monk class, so that very thoroughly throws the "never intended" argument out the window. The real question is is it classic, and I never played a monk but I'm pretty sure what I'm describing is how monks always pulled on live.

Not trolling here, just can't see how this is really any different from using invis. Invis, IVU, hide and sneak all do the same thing: they make the mob unable to perceive the player. Different forms of functional "invis", and different combinations behave somewhat differently, but they all set faction to "indifferent" when in effect.

[Nirgon]

Okay I see your point, yes I observed monks pulling single mobs like that in groups. As far as there being any mobs that do not behave that way? I would have to research or ask a classic monk guru (yes I can find one). I always felt it had more to do with the mobs deciding to path back sooner or later with the one you'd try and get single sticking around. So there was a bit of a luck of the draw to getting the perfect mob split and often I remember it was in some cases a job performed by 2 monks, especially given the aggro range of some npcs and splitting them off from each other.

Before we get into all that and really boil this down, I'd like to know if we've compiled enough evidence to burn down the current invis pull tactics. From there, I think the monk pull mechanics need to be investigated and ensured that they are not broken in the process.